Is it impossible to be a Liberal and Christian?

[Devout Pessimist]

Cardinal Burke – Culture must get sex right, or be destroyed

 

[deltapapha]

Liberal christians are weak and pathetic.

That has generally been my observed experience.

 

[ShinkanPo]

To be fair, the vast majority of Jews from Galilee lived at the subsistence level. This is why Jesus would have had to venture out to place like Tiberias and Sepphoris in order to get work. So to say he made profit might be stretching is haha.

He made prophet

 

[hillelslovak87]

So they performed their trade for what, free? subsistence?

You know there aren't large forests in the holy land right? Lumber is a fairly precious commodity. That's why most structures are built of stone in that region. How do you think they obtained lumber? They just went out and harvested materials by hook and crook?

Edit: There are the "Cedars of Lebanon" in the Holy Land which were prized for millennia. Still they were viewed as a precious resource and most likely fetched a pretty penny when exporterd/imported for use in carpentry and woodworking.

Just enough to survive. The Jewish people, especially the poor Galilee residents, would have no access to premium lumber. This lumber, like all other commodities, would be concentrated among the rich Jewish elite, or sent to Rome. Lumber probably would have been, for the most part, shipped to other parts of the Empire, seeing as the Jewish elite were in mostly stone buildings, and everyone else, the poor people, would have no need for the premium lumber.

Jesus would have maybe worked with it, but he in no way, as a tekton, would have no ownership of the materials. He would have made enough to take home and buy food, wheat, etc etc. These people struggled mightily, and paid great amounts of taxes. That is what Jesus despised. He saw the elite live beyond all want or need, while everyone else was crushed underfoot.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Just enough to survive. The Jewish people, especially the poor Galilee residents, would have no access to premium lumber. This lumber, like all other commodities, would be concentrated among the rich Jewish elite, or sent to Rome. Lumber probably would have been, for the most part, shipped to other parts of the Empire, seeing as the Jewish elite were in mostly stone buildings, and everyone else, the poor people, would have no need for the premium lumber.

Jesus would have maybe worked with it, but he in no way, as a tekton, would have no ownership of the materials. He would have made enough to take home and buy food, wheat, etc etc. These people struggled mightily, and paid great amounts of taxes. That is what Jesus despised. He saw the elite live beyond all want or need, while everyone else was crushed underfoot.

And I see know why he made that speech about a rich man entering the eye of a camel.

 

[fallable]

Just enough to survive. The Jewish people, especially the poor Galilee residents, would have no access to premium lumber. This lumber, like all other commodities, would be concentrated among the rich Jewish elite, or sent to Rome. Lumber probably would have been, for the most part, shipped to other parts of the Empire, seeing as the Jewish elite were in mostly stone buildings, and everyone else, the poor people, would have no need for the premium lumber.

Jesus would have maybe worked with it, but he in no way, as a tekton, would have no ownership of the materials. He would have made enough to take home and buy food, wheat, etc etc. These people struggled mightily, and paid great amounts of taxes. That is what Jesus despised. He saw the elite live beyond all want or need, while everyone else was crushed underfoot.

Yeah, I'm not saying they were wealthy.

Are you saying materials would have been allocated to them?

It seems to me, they would have built capital, bought lumber/materials and tools, and created finished products for sale.

Or

People would have contracted their services and either put up money for material, or Joseph/Jesus would have purchased material, and been compensated upon completion of the contracted project.

That is essentially the foundation of the for profit system.

 

[Throttlehead]

Liberal christians are weak and pathetic.

You are such a pathetic person, no wonder your interviews for jobs go south.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Religion has been continually modified since its inception.

Look how many wildly varying sects of Christianity that exist or have existed

no reason you cant change it to mesh with liberalism given that

 

[Ruprecht]

"Liberal" is an American label, and thankfully Christianity extends well outside of the United States.
There's always a nebulous intersection of culture, religion and politics.
It's why Americans developed the Prosperity gospel to evangelise naked Capitalism to the world.
It's also why there's so much Christian Zionism in the US.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Yeah, I'm not saying they were wealthy.

Are you saying materials would have been allocated to them?

It seems to me, they would have built capital, bought lumber/materials and tools, and created finished products for sale.

Or

People would have contracted their services and either put up money for material, or Joseph/Jesus would have purchased material, and been compensated upon completion of the contracted project.

That is essentially the foundation of the for profit system.

Either option is likely to be honest. At any rate, Jesus would have had just enough to survive. These people had no luxuries ever. That is what I mean by subsistence, they had the bare minimum to survive.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

It's impossible to be a Christian that follows the bible or even the NT on its entirety in a literal sense, you would be giving everything you have to the poor, not fighting back at all, but at the same time going around preaching so you would most likely get killed like Jesus or the early christian martyrs.
So there are a shitload of interpretations of the bible to make life possible.
I'm pretty sure you can find or make your own interpretation that allows you to be a christian and a liberal.

Most liberals are not christians though and only claim to be so for political reasons as atheists or other religions have a hard time getting elected in US or even most of europe.
You see, I'm basically an atheist but I also say I'm a christian when asked as I was raised as one and it avoids trouble.

 

[fallable]

Either option is likely to be honest. At any rate, Jesus would have had just enough to survive. These people had no luxuries ever. That is what I mean by subsistence, they had the bare minimum to survive.

After my last post I looked up whether or not Joseph was self employed and came across this...

bibleabookoftruth.com/WasJesusACarpenter.pdf

And it explains that the Hebrew word for carpenter is nagar, which has several different meanings, and when you infer information out of the various meanings of that word and couple it with what else we know about Jesus's life from the bible, it paints a completely different picture of Jesus's life then the one that is generally depicted.

It's 3 pages if your interested in it. It once again goes to how one interprete's scripture.

 

[ShinkanPo]

It's impossible to be a Christian that follows the bible or even the NT on its entirety in a literal sense, you would be giving everything you have to the poor, not fighting back at all, but at the same time going around preaching so you would most likely get killed like Jesus or the early christian martyrs.
So there are a shitload of interpretations of the bible to make life possible.
I'm pretty sure you can find or make your own interpretation that allows you to be a christian and a liberal.

Most liberals are not christians though and only claim to be so for political reasons as atheists or other religions have a hard time getting elected in US or even most of europe.
You see, I'm basically an atheist but I also say I'm a christian when asked as I was raised as one and it avoids trouble.

Give every thing to the poor to the point I became poor my self?

Did Jesus really said that? And if so why?

Why does he want everybody to be poor? I just don't get it.

 

[Son of Jamin]

Give every thing to the poor to the point I became poor my self?

Did Jesus really said that? And if so why?

Why does he want everybody to be poor? I just don't get it.

Jesus said that to a very wealthy man that said he was willing to follow God, he said that he had kept all the commandments etc.

He basically thought that good deeds made you worthy of salvation when it's grace alone.

Jesus knew that and that the man treasured his wealth very much and wouldn't want to give it up.

It doesn't matter if you are poor or rich for God but if you are rich, you are more susceptible of putting your trust in money above God, a "luxury" a poor person can't.

 

[Trumpisurdaddy]

Why would you need crowns and pleasure when the only purpose of heaven is to worship the lord? The idea of tiers and physical rewards sounds incredibly earthly, gross, and man invented.

Please list where the Bible promises one treasures, given Jesus' views on wealth, and the idea that you cant take riches with you when you die.

Did you pull this out your ass or did you just hear someone say this who pulled it out their ass?

 

[hillelslovak87]

Did you pull this out your ass or did you just hear someone say this who pulled it out their ass?

That's what I was taught growing up as a Baptist. It certainly cant be more absurd than running around talking to the people you knew in life, whilst blissfully ignoring all the people you knew who didn't make it.

 

[Trumpisurdaddy]

That's what I was taught growing up as a Baptist. It certainly cant be more absurd than running around talking to the people you knew in life, whilst blissfully ignoring all the people you knew who didn't make it.

Whats absurd about reuniting with your loved ones?

Also I don't think people who dislike religion have really thought how the world would be if people really thought that this was it. Kind of depressing that your life is random and can be taken away from you any second by something you do, someone else does to you or just freak accident. That you life this one life, which may be shitty as hell and then your reward for this random shit life you have lived, NOTHING. There are billions of people that live a shitty life but know (or hope) that their reward will be eternal life in heaven. Can you imagine if that hope was taken away from them? Whats to stop them from rising up and slaughtering everyone and taking what they want? Whats the point of being good or righteous if you live in squalor and have zero chance of every having anything or doing anything with your life?

Now Im not saying that without religion people turn into crazy killers or cant be good people, but I sure as hell don't want to see what would happen if the majority of the world stopped believing.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

I was watching fox and one of those very intelligent lady said you cant be a Liberal and a Christian, is that so?. I am a Liberal and a also believe I am a Christian but is she right? I'm I only a Liberal or a Christian? If so I wouldnt know which to choose.

give to him who would beg of you

who was it that said that????

 

[Sycho Sid]

So is Jimmy Carter not a Christian or not a liberal?

 

[phipps66]

If the TV lady can make you question you're very identity I'd say you have some soul searching to do. Turn off the news brother man. It's all bullshit, and it's all bad for you.