is grappling best for self defence

[These Two Hands]

I've been in a lot of fights like what Badger67 is describing. Or, I should say, I used to when I was a bit younger. I prefer grappling in an altercation now as it's less likely for me to end up in handcuffs along with the other guy at the end of it.

I've had a small hole poked in me in a fight before, been slashed a couple times. Successfully managed to get a knife off the other person on occasion a couple times; both of which I used some form of grappling to keep myself safe and get the knife away. I've also been bottled, and bottled other people too many times to even count. Broke a guys collarbone then smashed my glass in his face and used the base of the glass to fuck up his front teeth. Used bats on people, including a bat I used to have when I was teenager which had barbed wire wrapped around the end of it, almost always had knuckle dusters on me and never thought twice about using them. Beat a guy with a tyre iron a little bit. Stomped and been stomped, all that good shit.
(Yeah I've lived in some rough neighbourhoods too, in their own right...)

Thing is, looking back at all of the various situations I can recall there wasn't a single one that couldn't have been handled by grappling in some way, shape or form. And I coudl have saved myself a bunch of trouble, hassle and losses of freedom to boot. Seems to me it's best to only escalate violence as much as you need to do in order to make it out of the situation swiftly and safely. Beating someone's face into tomato paste is simply unnecessary. And now, knowing this through learning the hard way and having to face consequences and retribution on occasion it does stand out to me a lot how many so-called "self-defense" systems advertised to people out there are basically promising somebody a way to do just that. Beat the everloving shit out of the bad guys, and live out all your wildest Walter Mitty/Straw Dogs fantasies while FEARING NO MAN etc. It seems like a bad idea.

The point and purpose of self defense is self preservation, is it not?

 

[Russky]

I've had a small hole poked in me in a fight before, been slashed a couple times. Successfully managed to get a knife off the other person on occasion a couple times; both of which I used some form of grappling to keep myself safe and get the knife away. I've also been bottled, and bottled other people too many times to even count. Broke a guys collarbone then smashed my glass in his face and used the base of the glass to fuck up his front teeth. Used bats on people, including a bat I used to have when I was teenager which had barbed wire wrapped around the end of it, almost always had knuckle dusters on me and never thought twice about using them. Beat a guy with a tyre iron a little bit. Stomped and been stomped, all that good shit.
(Yeah I've lived in some rough neighbourhoods too, in their own right...)

I am surprised that they allow you to post from jail.

Life in Russia was pretty rough after the SU collapse. Many joined gangs and had lifestyle like yours. Most of them ended up in the graveyard, the luckiest ones went to jail. You are not writing from cemetery, are you?

 

[These Two Hands]

I am surprised that they allow you to post from jail.

Life in Russia was pretty rough after the SU collapse. Many joined gangs and had lifestyle like yours. Most of them ended up in the graveyard, the luckiest ones went to jail. You are not writing from cemetery, are you?

From what I have heard, Russia was far worse than the areas I have lived in. The vor y zakhone and the like would make myself or any of my old crowd look like kindergartners. I am not currently in jail or the cemetery. I did some dumb things when I was younger because it was what I/we all thought was the way to do things; I'm neither proud nor bragging here. The point I am making is that that kind of stuff has nothing at all to do with self defense and is not self defense. But when the topic of self defense comes up a lot of people show themselves as simply wanting an excuse to act in that manner.

Also edited to add: You used the words "lifestyle like yours". I referenced the lifestyle I grew up around, which is not the lifestyle I lead now.

 

[7437]

I have a gun......... never needed to use it because i am not a dick. not much martial arts can do to top a firearm.

 

[These Two Hands]

Or, Russky, to put it another way; the part of my post which you quoted contains no true examples of self defense, but only examples of rage, immaturity and youthful bravado (and does also mention the high rate of negative outcome for oneself that comes along with those). The martial artist should (imo) be beyond this; carnage is the hallmark of the immature and the sociopath, and rarely anyone else. Outside of those with a predatory mindset, a man confident in himself and sure of his capabilities doesn't have a tendency to harbour urges to lay waste to his fellow man in such a way. He has no need for it; if need arises he knows he can and will do what he must, to the best of his ability.

Read the second half of my post which you quoted from; this is what I was trying to say in response to some things which were coming up in this thread. And also that I believe that grappling would have been a better way to handle pretty much any of those situations.

 

[These Two Hands]

I have a gun......... never needed to use it because i am not a dick. not much martial arts can do to top a firearm.

This is true.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Don't listen to this. Systema and Krav are largely unproven trash.

Nothing beats actually struggling against people in the gym like you would in judo or BJJ to prepare you for struggling outside the gym.


However, weapons are even better. Gun or knife training is your best bet. There's a reason we humans fight wars with weapons and not empty hands. They work.

Wow how did i not get these before. Weird.
Anyway, krav maga is not "unproven", it's our army's sytem and works just fine with 21 enemy countries surrounding our tiny one u can barely see on map.

Anyway, u disproved ur own bs talking out ur ass... krav maga has gun and knife training both in offence and defence. Judo and bjj do not. Its a modern military combat system like the US marine has MCMAP, russia has Systema, Israel has Krav Maga.

I think what's blinding you is that these three dont have a wateres down sport's version which u consider "proof".

LMFAO...

you dont need to train no shit to eye poke someone or groin shot anyone, grapplers can do all tht pus fuck you up in many ways and you cant stop shit..

I'm pretty sure taking down a guy and tryong to arm bar him while his 3 other buddies are kickin u on the floor will help so much. Or when ur trying to judo toss someone via tsuri-goshi while someone else knifes ur side in a dark alley. *rolls eyes*

Why be a cringy troll...

 

[ChainFlow]

Wow how did i not get these before. Weird.
Anyway, krav maga is not "unproven", it's our army's sytem and works just fine with 21 enemy countries surrounding our tiny one u can barely see on map.

Anyway, u disproved ur own bs talking out ur ass... krav maga has gun and knife training both in offence and defence. Judo and bjj do not. Its a modern military combat system like the US marine has MCMAP, russia has Systema, Israel has Krav Maga.

I think what's blinding you is that these three dont have a wateres down sport's version which u consider "proof".

1) Krav Maga outside of the actual Israeli military, especially in the US, is likely an imitation and attempt to cash in on the perceived legitimacy of the vaunted combat system of the Israeli military. It's likely as authentic as what is sold as "mayonnaise" in the US. AND that is assuming that it is better for unarmed self-defense at all, which it is absolutely not!

2) It is not better because you can't be better at struggling with other humans unless you actually do that. Actual, real attempts to beat someone. In Judo and BJJ you have that. You're not doing stupid compliant drills and never going out there and trying to do the moves to someone trying to do them right back to you in an entirely unscripted manner. Or "sparring".

So yes. I require proof. You can blather and sputter and puff up and make your frankly ignorant comments all you want, but there is zero reason to believe that what you advocate is better for learning to control and defeat other humans than an art where you actually do that to people who are absolutely not letting you and in fact are trying to control and defeat you.

3) You're actually factually ignorant/wrong. The US military systems have acknowledged the need for unscripted, combative training and have internal sparring and competitions and tournaments where they hone their skills and prove what works and what doesn't. You can look them up on YouTube. If what you advocate does not, it's because they're afraid to be embarrassed by their failures.

4) What good does gun and knife training do you unless you're carrying them with you all the time? If you are carrying them, then sure, learn how to use them, from someone who specializes in that. But again, I'd rather learn from someone with actual evidence that what they have works, rather than "I learned from a guy who learned from a guy who learned from a guy who totally was in the israeli military once, i swear"

5) Unarmed combatives is a tiny part of the curriculum of any modern military, because you should never be without your weapon and if your weapon fails you should always have your backup. So how would they be better at fighting without weapons when that is less than 5% of their training time than an art where that is 99% of what they do? That's soooooo dumb.

I'm pretty sure taking down a guy and tryong to arm bar him while his 3 other buddies are kickin u on the floor will help so much. Or when ur trying to judo toss someone via tsuri-goshi while someone else knifes ur side in a dark alley. *rolls eyes*

Why be a cringy troll...

I'm pretty sure that trying to kick a guy in the crotch won't do you much good while one of his buddies drags you to the ground and you don't have the ability to reverse him off of you while he is 100% trying to hold you down, because you didn't train BJJ where you do that sort of thing literally hundreds of times a month and instead just played pretend with guys in camouflage gear. Then you're screwed while his friend pulls his knife and stabs your poor pinned self.

I'm pretty sure that someone can knife your side in a dark ally while you try to eyepoke someone else. There's nothing magical about Judo throws that make you freeze in time while someone gets to stab you all they want versus stupid Krav pokes that don't work because the guy isn't standing there and letting you hit him right in the eye and instead is swinging at you while his friend gets his knife ready behind you.

You're hopeless. Someday you may wake from your delusions, and hopefully it isn't in an actual situation.

Also, you waited two years for this drivel and this is all you can come up with? GTFO.

 

[rmongler]

Anyway, krav maga is not "unproven", it's our army's sytem and works just fine with 21 enemy countries surrounding our tiny one u can barely see on map.

Im pretty sure that has a lot more to do with geo-political strategy and highly connected hebrew special interest groups in the US than a random bunch of guys martial LARPing.

 

[spacetime]

While MMA severely handicaps grapplers by using gloves (much harder to do submissions), stand-up after the round is over etc.... I still recommend Muay Thai over BJJ or Judo for SD.

 

[ChainFlow]

While MMA severely handicaps grapplers by using gloves (much harder to do submissions), stand-up after the round is over etc.... I still recommend Muay Thai over BJJ or Judo for SD.

That’s fine, but I’d at least recommend some additional MMA or wrestling training to learn how to avoid being pinned and to stand up when someone is trying to hold you down.

I generally default to grappling arts as a recommendation because some smaller people will just never hit hard enough to do serious damage. I’m also much better at grappling than striking, so I’m probably biased.

 

[spacetime]

That’s fine, but I’d at least recommend some additional MMA or wrestling training to learn how to avoid being pinned and to stand up when someone is trying to hold you down.

I generally default to grappling arts as a recommendation because some smaller people will just never hit hard enough to do serious damage. I’m also much better at grappling than striking, so I’m probably biased.

I think smaller guys will have an incredibly difficult time taking bigger guys down who know how to sprawl. At least that's my experience against a much smaller (but bulky) wrestler.

I learned to sprawl by myself due to trial and error.

 

[rmongler]

I think smaller guys will have an incredibly difficult time taking bigger guys down who know how to sprawl. At least that's my experience against a much smaller (but bulky) wrestler.

I learned to sprawl by myself due to trial and error.

Well if your only definition of 'takedowns' is 'head in the hole double', then sure.

 

[spacetime]

Well if you definition of 'takedowns' is 'head in the hole double', then sure.

The wrestler I faced went for double leg takedown and failed. He was probably weight wise similiar but a midget in comparison regarding height and reach.

 

[TonyG304]

Nope it's worthless in the streets. Go ahead and try to double leg me, I'll sprawl on you and beat your face in with my gnp skills. Doesn't matter if I haven't trained it before. Watching it on tv is more than enough. And if you try to put me in guard I'll kick you in the nuts so hard your grand kids will be impotent. If all else fails, I'll whistle for my boys and they will stab you to death. The key thing to remember is that nothing is worth training unless it applies to every single situation imaginable.

 

[kamalayka]

i am from Pakistan and working in NGO, i want to learn Grappling/BJJ for my self defence, is grappling is good for women self defence.

Self-defense? No.

Look at this video of BJJ gone wrong:



And now imagine if these scenarios had happened on concrete.

99% of fights can be avoided, so long as you're willing to keep ego in check. And for that 1% of the time when you're legitimately under attack and have no way to run, your attacker is far more likely to be armed than he is to be a skilled grappler, which means:

(a) striking/takedowns should be enough to defend yourself

(b) if you attempt fancy BJJ, he's likely to stab or shoot you. Or maybe just go into a frightened rage and slam you like in the video above.

On concrete.

 

[kamalayka]

In a legit defense situation, striking is probably best. Immobilize the attacker and get away.

Like how this karate instructor stood up for some prostitutes getting beaten by their pimp. The karate man delivers an open-hand strike a pressure point and ends it.



You'd be insane to use grappling in that situation.

 

[SummerStriker]

I've never seen a grappler lose a street fight.

 

[RemyR]

Not saying it’s the best, but having been placed in a lot of situations being attacked by drunks/druggies (paramedic) I can honestly say I feel very comfortable and not afraid to defend myself. And as a bonus I can restrain the guy without harming him until law enforcement arrives.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Nope it's worthless in the streets. Go ahead and try to double leg me, I'll sprawl on you and beat your face in with my gnp skills. Doesn't matter if I haven't trained it before. Watching it on tv is more than enough. And if you try to put me in guard I'll kick you in the nuts so hard your grand kids will be impotent. If all else fails, I'll whistle for my boys and they will stab you to death. The key thing to remember is that nothing is worth training unless it applies to every single situation imaginable.

Right you just learn how to sprawl by watching ufc? Lmfao