is gordan ryan the best no gi guy today? | Page 2

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by tekkenfan, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    I think he's at the tail end of his peak. I'd pick any of those three guys to beat him in a match, certainly in a multi match series.
     
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  2. Solidus Snake Purple Belt

    Solidus Snake
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    In a nogi grappling event, I'd find really hard to bet against Gordon Ryan in this day, whoever was the opponent. I don't think even Felipe Pena would surprise him a third time with his heelhook tactic.
     
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  3. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    Gordon was on a podcast this week and insinuated that he's either shored up the hole in the transition that allows for that defense and/or has backup plans to counter the counter. Or I could see him avoiding that 4-11 position entirely. People said that was the second time

    Pena has done it but Pena actually did it at least one time in their first match before the time that ended the match.

    What I wanna know is at adcc did Pena initiate the 50/50 knowing that Gordon would go for the 4-11 inverted heel hook just so that he (Pena) could do his counter and take the back? Was Pena playing the long con? Or was it just opportunistic?
     
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  4. Ryo Black Belt

    Ryo
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    Hard to say, just from one ADCC. Winners and losers are largely based on match-ups in which bracket they landed. I think Buchecha is still in the argument. However, because of the match-up he got put in, by the time he got to Penna he was so exuasted that he got caught. I don't think Gordan nor Pena would beat Buchecha generally if they fought multiple times.
     
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  5. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    I may be veering down a side street here, but even though Buchecha has crazy good no-gi accomplishments, I don't really think of him as a no-gi grappler because of his style. I would probably even bet on Buchecha over Pena and Ryan most of the time like you.

    But even though Buchecha slaps on some heel hooks, some mounted darces, and has adjusted his passing for no-gi, if someone asked me who to watch to improve their no-gi game I don't know if he'd be as high on my list as Pena and Gordon.

    That may sound stupid.
     
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  6. tekkenfan White Belt

    tekkenfan
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    u dont think braulio estimas 2009 was the best? dude dominate his division and the absolute finishing everyone pretty fast
     
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  7. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    I tink we may have missed each other just a bit.

    Braulio's 2009 run I think is the best bracket run ever at ADCC. I agree with you.

    In what you quoted though, I was listing ADCC debut performances. 2009 wasn't Braulio's first rodeo at ADCC so I didn't include it.

    Oh shit...I just realized that 2005 wasn't Roger's first ADCC either.

    So yeah. Braulio and then Roger I think are the 2 best ADCC runs ever. And as far as debuts, I think Marcelo in 2003 is the best.
     
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  8. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    he didnt finish everyone, roger did.
     
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  9. qiksilverman Blue Belt

    qiksilverman
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    I was a hater forever...but after this years ADCC performance it's tough to not say he's one of the top 3
    Wins division 2nd in Absolute...come on folks
     
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  10. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    It is crazy that this thread had a decent chance of not happening. Gordon Ryan could have easily lost that ref decision to Dillon Danis and we'd have threads talking about how big of a bust Gordon was. Danis was the most difficult match Gordon had that weekend and if that coin toss had gone the other way then Gordon is knocked out of the 88kg bracket immediately and has much less momentum to work with if he does the absolute divison. Either way we wouldn't have a thread like this.

    Not only that but Braulio was doing shit that just hadn't been seen in submission grappling before.

    He debuted the Estima lock on Lovato Jr. He was nailing inverted triangles from crazy angles on Galvao and Xande. He was hitting arm triangles from the back on Marcelo Garcia.

    Braulio made it look so easy.
     
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  11. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    True. But he did go 6 for 8, and against a little bit better competition.

    I think we talked about this the other week. And you're still right. Braulio didn't have to deal with Jacare. But overall I think Braulio having to deal with the likes of Lovato Jr, Vinny Magalhaes, Xande, Galvao, and Marcelo is slightly more impressive. And again, in 2009 the overall skill level in the no-gi game was significantly better in 2009 than it was when Roger won in 2005.

    Same boat. I thought he was going to be one of those guys that only had success in sub-only and would not be able to translate as effectively to points.
     
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  12. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Yeah we did, I just don't agre bro, I think jaca is just a monster grappler that's one step above the rest. May be is just my impression though...
     
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  13. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    Nah man your argument is legit. I honestly think I'm in the minority.
     
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  14. trustdoesntrust Green Belt

    trustdoesntrust
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    I rewatched Gordon's ADCC match against Xande recently, and it really blew me away to see the full array of his skills. His guard passing, guard defense, sweeps, back attacks-- amazing for a guy known as a leglocker. Only his wrestling was subpar, and with his gangly lumbering frame I'm not sure he'll ever master that area, but the sky is the limit everywhere else.
     
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  15. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    For guys that don't really train gi very much. Passing pressure seems to be either the thing that never happens or the last thing that falls into place.

    Somehow he made it happen. That was the biggest shock to me. When he passed Romulo twice.

    I am in the crowd that thinks gi training helps your no gi game and vice versa. Was surprised Gordon's passing was as heavy as it was yet mobile.
     
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  16. kjg1672 Purple Belt

    kjg1672
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    I would have to watch the matches again, but I thought Gordon's wrestling was OK. Or I guess good enough. To me this was the big wildcard, and at the least it was good enough. For a guy who I don't think even wrestled in high school, I came away impressed.
     
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  17. trustdoesntrust Green Belt

    trustdoesntrust
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    It was good enough, as a completed TD would have lost him the Xande and Dillon Danis matches, but Xande was in on several deep singles and Gordon couldn't really mount much TD offense. Overall Gordon just has a certain stiffness in his standup, unlike Garry Tonon or even his brother Nicky, who aren't great wrestlers but move fluidly on the feet. I could see him developing a clinch-and-trip game like Fabricio Werdum, but seems like it may never be a strength in his game.
     
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  18. trustdoesntrust Green Belt

    trustdoesntrust
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    There's a match on YouTube of him in the gi as a purple belt, and he definitely resembles the same methodical style as now but not as effective. I don't know if you heard his recent interview on the dirty white belt podcast, but he sounded VERY confident that he will compete and win in the gi, which he attributed to his and John Danaher's gripping system. Seems intriguing, something about his slow style that would seem to translate very well to the gi.
     
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  19. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    Do you understand what consistency mean? It is not one event performance. It is staying on top year by year, event by event. Not winning one competition.
    And I know that question was about best grappler TODAY, but I don't think it is approptiate to call somebody the best based only on one great performance (and it is one of the greatest for sure, don't get me wrong).
     
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  20. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    Agree 100%. That's why I can't call somebody great based on one event performance.
     
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