is gordan ryan the best no gi guy today?

[Uchi Mata]

Andre Galvao probably too

I think he's at the tail end of his peak. I'd pick any of those three guys to beat him in a match, certainly in a multi match series.

 

[Solidus Snake]

In a nogi grappling event, I'd find really hard to bet against Gordon Ryan in this day, whoever was the opponent. I don't think even Felipe Pena would surprise him a third time with his heelhook tactic.

 

[mataleaos]

In a nogi grappling event, I'd find really hard to bet against Gordon Ryan in this day, whoever was the opponent. I don't think even Felipe Pena would surprise him a third time with his heelhook tactic.

Gordon was on a podcast this week and insinuated that he's either shored up the hole in the transition that allows for that defense and/or has backup plans to counter the counter. Or I could see him avoiding that 4-11 position entirely. People said that was the second time

Pena has done it but Pena actually did it at least one time in their first match before the time that ended the match.

What I wanna know is at adcc did Pena initiate the 50/50 knowing that Gordon would go for the 4-11 inverted heel hook just so that he (Pena) could do his counter and take the back? Was Pena playing the long con? Or was it just opportunistic?

 

[Ryo]

Hard to say, just from one ADCC. Winners and losers are largely based on match-ups in which bracket they landed. I think Buchecha is still in the argument. However, because of the match-up he got put in, by the time he got to Penna he was so exuasted that he got caught. I don't think Gordan nor Pena would beat Buchecha generally if they fought multiple times.

 

[mataleaos]

Hard to say, just from one ADCC. Winners and losers are largely based on match-ups in which bracket they landed. I think Buchecha is still in the argument. However, because of the match-up he got put in, by the time he got to Penna he was so exuasted that he got caught. I don't think Gordan nor Pena would beat Buchecha generally if they fought multiple times.

I may be veering down a side street here, but even though Buchecha has crazy good no-gi accomplishments, I don't really think of him as a no-gi grappler because of his style. I would probably even bet on Buchecha over Pena and Ryan most of the time like you.

But even though Buchecha slaps on some heel hooks, some mounted darces, and has adjusted his passing for no-gi, if someone asked me who to watch to improve their no-gi game I don't know if he'd be as high on my list as Pena and Gordon.

That may sound stupid.

 

[tekkenfan]

To be fair if you're only basing it on ADCC results then he is technicaly the best at his weight class (the deepest of the event) and the 2nd best overall, since he placed silver in the Absolute after Felipe Pena.

Gordon's performance was close to on par with some of the better ADCC performances of all time. I have doubted the kid a fair amount during the past 18 months or so but the results do speak for themselves. He said he was going to come to ADCC and dominate and that's exactly what he did. I think in terms of ADCC debuts, Roger's debut in 2005 is the best, then Marcelo's debut in 2003 is obviously the 2nd best probably. Rafa Mendes had a wonderful debut year at ADCC 2009.

Honestly though leaving room for a couple I may be forgetting, I don't see how Gordon Ryan didn't just have a top 5 ADCC debut of all time, if not top 4. Has anyone else besides maybe Mark Kerr or Ricardo Arona debuted at ADCC and won their division and made the finals of the absolute? And if they did, they didn't sub so many legends and killers on the way there.

u dont think braulio estimas 2009 was the best? dude dominate his division and the absolute finishing everyone pretty fast

 

[mataleaos]

u dont think braulio estimas 2009 was the best? dude dominate his division and the absolute finishing everyone pretty fast

I tink we may have missed each other just a bit.

Braulio's 2009 run I think is the best bracket run ever at ADCC. I agree with you.

In what you quoted though, I was listing ADCC debut performances. 2009 wasn't Braulio's first rodeo at ADCC so I didn't include it.

Oh shit...I just realized that 2005 wasn't Roger's first ADCC either.

So yeah. Braulio and then Roger I think are the 2 best ADCC runs ever. And as far as debuts, I think Marcelo in 2003 is the best.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

u dont think braulio estimas 2009 was the best? dude dominate his division and the absolute finishing everyone pretty fast

he didnt finish everyone, roger did.

 

[qiksilverman]

I was a hater forever...but after this years ADCC performance it's tough to not say he's one of the top 3
Wins division 2nd in Absolute...come on folks

 

[mataleaos]

It is crazy that this thread had a decent chance of not happening. Gordon Ryan could have easily lost that ref decision to Dillon Danis and we'd have threads talking about how big of a bust Gordon was. Danis was the most difficult match Gordon had that weekend and if that coin toss had gone the other way then Gordon is knocked out of the 88kg bracket immediately and has much less momentum to work with if he does the absolute divison. Either way we wouldn't have a thread like this.

u dont think braulio estimas 2009 was the best? dude dominate his division and the absolute finishing everyone pretty fast

Not only that but Braulio was doing shit that just hadn't been seen in submission grappling before.

He debuted the Estima lock on Lovato Jr. He was nailing inverted triangles from crazy angles on Galvao and Xande. He was hitting arm triangles from the back on Marcelo Garcia.

Braulio made it look so easy.

 

[mataleaos]

he didnt finish everyone, roger did.

True. But he did go 6 for 8, and against a little bit better competition.

I think we talked about this the other week. And you're still right. Braulio didn't have to deal with Jacare. But overall I think Braulio having to deal with the likes of Lovato Jr, Vinny Magalhaes, Xande, Galvao, and Marcelo is slightly more impressive. And again, in 2009 the overall skill level in the no-gi game was significantly better in 2009 than it was when Roger won in 2005.

I was a hater forever...but after this years ADCC performance it's tough to not say he's one of the top 3
Wins division 2nd in Absolute...come on folks

Same boat. I thought he was going to be one of those guys that only had success in sub-only and would not be able to translate as effectively to points.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

True. But he did go 6 for 8, and against a little bit better competition.

I think we talked about this the other week. And you're still right. Braulio didn't have to deal with Jacare. But overall I think Braulio having to deal with the likes of Lovato Jr, Vinny Magalhaes, Xande, Galvao, and Marcelo is slightly more impressive. And again, in 2009 the overall skill level in the no-gi game was significantly better in 2009 than it was when Roger won in 2005.



Same boat. I thought he was going to be one of those guys that only had success in sub-only and would not be able to translate as effectively to points.

Yeah we did, I just don't agre bro, I think jaca is just a monster grappler that's one step above the rest. May be is just my impression though...

 

[mataleaos]

Yeah we did, I just don't agre bro, I think jaca is just a monster grappler that's one step above the rest. May be is just my impression though...

Nah man your argument is legit. I honestly think I'm in the minority.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I knew the goal posts had moved when Gordon took down, passed, took the back, and RNC's Romulo Barral and I heard a couple people say it's because Romulo finally "hit a wall."

Okay, sure. Lol.

I rewatched Gordon's ADCC match against Xande recently, and it really blew me away to see the full array of his skills. His guard passing, guard defense, sweeps, back attacks-- amazing for a guy known as a leglocker. Only his wrestling was subpar, and with his gangly lumbering frame I'm not sure he'll ever master that area, but the sky is the limit everywhere else.

 

[mataleaos]

I rewatched Gordon's ADCC match against Xande recently, and it really blew me away to see the full array of his skills. His guard passing, guard defense, sweeps, back attacks-- amazing for a guy known as a leglocker. Only his wrestling was subpar, and with his gangly lumbering frame I'm not sure he'll ever master that area, but the sky is the limit everywhere else.

For guys that don't really train gi very much. Passing pressure seems to be either the thing that never happens or the last thing that falls into place.

Somehow he made it happen. That was the biggest shock to me. When he passed Romulo twice.

I am in the crowd that thinks gi training helps your no gi game and vice versa. Was surprised Gordon's passing was as heavy as it was yet mobile.

 

[kjg1672]

I rewatched Gordon's ADCC match against Xande recently, and it really blew me away to see the full array of his skills. His guard passing, guard defense, sweeps, back attacks-- amazing for a guy known as a leglocker. Only his wrestling was subpar, and with his gangly lumbering frame I'm not sure he'll ever master that area, but the sky is the limit everywhere else.

I would have to watch the matches again, but I thought Gordon's wrestling was OK. Or I guess good enough. To me this was the big wildcard, and at the least it was good enough. For a guy who I don't think even wrestled in high school, I came away impressed.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

I would have to watch the matches again, but I thought Gordon's wrestling was OK. Or I guess good enough. To me this was the big wildcard, and at the least it was good enough. For a guy who I don't think even wrestled in high school, I came away impressed.

It was good enough, as a completed TD would have lost him the Xande and Dillon Danis matches, but Xande was in on several deep singles and Gordon couldn't really mount much TD offense. Overall Gordon just has a certain stiffness in his standup, unlike Garry Tonon or even his brother Nicky, who aren't great wrestlers but move fluidly on the feet. I could see him developing a clinch-and-trip game like Fabricio Werdum, but seems like it may never be a strength in his game.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

For guys that don't really train gi very much. Passing pressure seems to be either the thing that never happens or the last thing that falls into place.

Somehow he made it happen. That was the biggest shock to me. When he passed Romulo twice.

I am in the crowd that thinks gi training helps your no gi game and vice versa. Was surprised Gordon's passing was as heavy as it was yet mobile.

There's a match on YouTube of him in the gi as a purple belt, and he definitely resembles the same methodical style as now but not as effective. I don't know if you heard his recent interview on the dirty white belt podcast, but he sounded VERY confident that he will compete and win in the gi, which he attributed to his and John Danaher's gripping system. Seems intriguing, something about his slow style that would seem to translate very well to the gi.

 

[snowdale]

Consistency is also winning your division, the most stacked division of all time, and get the silver medal in the absolute, ending most of the matches by submission.
And to the question, who is the best submission grappler TODAY, your pedigree means nothing, you only consider the last competitions.

Do you understand what consistency mean? It is not one event performance. It is staying on top year by year, event by event. Not winning one competition.
And I know that question was about best grappler TODAY, but I don't think it is approptiate to call somebody the best based only on one great performance (and it is one of the greatest for sure, don't get me wrong).

 

[snowdale]

Hard to say, just from one ADCC. Winners and losers are largely based on match-ups in which bracket they landed. I think Buchecha is still in the argument. However, because of the match-up he got put in, by the time he got to Penna he was so exuasted that he got caught. I don't think Gordan nor Pena would beat Buchecha generally if they fought multiple times.

Agree 100%. That's why I can't call somebody great based on one event performance.