is gordan ryan the best no gi guy today?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by tekkenfan, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. tekkenfan White Belt

    tekkenfan
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    this threads probably been done to death but i havent paid much attention since 2014 when keenan started beating alot of people so im curious today whos considered the best no gi i didnt even know who gordan ryan was till i saw adcc and saw what he did to keenan
     
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  2. Bubblun Brown Belt

    Bubblun
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    It's hard to say who is the best guy since there are a lot of killers these days, but he is definitely one of the best submission wrestlers in the world.
    In sub only rules he is the best.
     
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  3. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    No, he is not.
     
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  4. Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

    Dogstarman
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    Well, some were critical of him for not winning ADCC and said he sucked because he didn't win that. He has won it but as the post above proves, there will always be moving goal posts for American competitors.

    After he won ADCC there were some that said they would hold judgement until he won nogi worlds.

    The guy won ADCC. I mean he is the best this year, so far.
     
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  5. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    Don't get me wrong he is top no gi competitor. But best only in his weightclass. To call him "best no gi today" is too much.
     
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  6. Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

    Dogstarman
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    Exactly my point.
     
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  7. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    To be fair if you're only basing it on ADCC results then he is technicaly the best at his weight class (the deepest of the event) and the 2nd best overall, since he placed silver in the Absolute after Felipe Pena.

    Gordon's performance was close to on par with some of the better ADCC performances of all time. I have doubted the kid a fair amount during the past 18 months or so but the results do speak for themselves. He said he was going to come to ADCC and dominate and that's exactly what he did. I think in terms of ADCC debuts, Marcelo's debut in 2003 is the best, I think. Rafa Mendes had a wonderful debut year at ADCC 2009 as well.

    Honestly though leaving room for a couple I may be forgetting, I don't see how Gordon Ryan didn't just have a top 3 or 4 ADCC debut of all time, if not top 3. Has anyone else besides maybe Mark Kerr or Ricardo Arona debuted at ADCC and won their division and made the finals of the absolute? If they did, they for sure didn't sub so many legends and killers on the way there.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  8. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    Yeah, I think so. He and Felipe Pena.

    People will always move the goal posts with this guy but at ADCC this year he beat:

    -88kg
    Dillon Danis (NoGi Pans double gold medalist) via decision
    Romulo Barral (ADCC winner) via rear naked choke
    Xande Ribeiro (2x ADCC winner) via decision
    Keenan Cornelius (Former ADCC silver medalist and NoGi Worlds winner) via mounted guillotine

    - Absolute
    Cyborg Abreu (ADCC winner) via inverted heel hook
    Craig Jones (ADCC 2017 breakout star by subbing Leandro Lo and Murilo Santana) via arm triangle
    Muhammad Aly (young lion going to do big things) via inverted heel hook

    Then he lost in the final minutes of the absolute finals against Felipe Pena when Felipe Pena did the same counter to Gordon's inverted heel hook as last December.

    Gordon's game is very well rounded. He's got good wrestling, awesome pressure passing and windshield wiper passing, excellent back attacks and finishing from there. Great leg triangles and arm triangles. Awesome kimura game to take the back or armbar. Great front headlock chokes. Obviously great heel hooks. Good butterfly half guard and hook sweeps. Doesn't need to fully sweep or pass to submit you because of his 4-11 heel hook position entries.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  9. fanboysareevil Green Belt

    fanboysareevil
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    He's extremely good but I think Felipe's stake towards that claim is currently the best.
     
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  10. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    I think it's Gordon and Pena for sure


     
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  11. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    I would say it's him and Pena, though in all fairness Yuri Simoes should probably be in that conversation too.
     
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  12. Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

    Dogstarman
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    I can get behind this statement, but his journey through some of those beasts. I mean he won by submission in a lot of his matches. His performance was on par with some of the greatest of all time. Sure Pena has his number and you can argue that Pena is the best. I will not contradict that, but to make it seem as if Ryan is a scrub because he lost to Pena is ingenious.
     
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  13. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    Andre Galvao probably too
     
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  14. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    I knew the goal posts had moved when Gordon took down, passed, took the back, and RNC's Romulo Barral and I heard a couple people say it's because Romulo finally "hit a wall."

    Okay, sure. Lol.
     
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  15. Cardio Blue Belt

    Cardio
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    I think Don Mattingly would give any of 'em a run for their money.
     
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  16. snowdale White Belt

    snowdale
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    Well, Roger's performance at ADCC 2005 was more impressive. Did we consider him best no gi guy?
    I mean one great performance does not make guy a GOAT.
    Better look at Marcelo, Cobrinha, Rafa, Xande or Galvao, they are the greatest because of consistency. After all Eddie Bravo once subbed Royler, and Orlando Sanchez had an ADCC gold.
     
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  17. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    This is
    good point. But one thing I would add is that the original question was about Gordon being the best "no-gi grappler" and even though Roger had the best adcc debut ever and arguably the best adcc performance ever, he only did the brackets once and most people don't think of him as a "no-gi grappler".

    Gordon has done very little gi training, compared to his peers as of this point. He self identified as a no-gi submission grappler, and he might be the first (almost) pure no-gi guy to win ADCC besides Mark Kerr, and he's definitely the first "no-gi jiu jitsu" guy (that barely trained in the gi) to win ADCC.

    Usually it's the opposite and most adcc winners have spent most of their time go training.

    For that reason alone Gordon is possibly the best for what the OP is asking.
     
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  18. Bubblun Brown Belt

    Bubblun
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    Consistency is also winning your division, the most stacked division of all time, and get the silver medal in the absolute, ending most of the matches by submission.

    And to the question, who is the best submission grappler TODAY, your pedigree means nothing, you only consider the last competitions.
     
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  19. mataleaos Green Belt

    mataleaos
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    Definitely.

    There is something to be said for one time performances. And I still think Roger has the 2nd best double gold run through the brackets ever. It's not a popular opinion but I think Braulio's double gold run in 2009 is slightly better.

    Braulio didn't sub 8 of 8 people like Roger, but subbed 6 of 8 against better overall competition in a time where the no-gi game became significantly more robust.

    So again, it goes back to consistency. Gordon beat a varied field as well. Newcomers and hot prospects like Danis, Jones, and Aly. Vets and former champs like Barral and Cyborg. Super Old school vets like Xande. And newer school but established guys like Keenan.

    He beat a very deep and varied field. The only criticism you can throw out there is that he got 2 ref decisions. The Danis match arguably could've been a coin toss. And Xande performed better in overtime but in regulation I thought Gordon's performance was much better.
     
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  20. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Pena... Also Marcelo, the fuck with him not competing as long as Marcelo is alive he's still retains that spot...
     
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