Crime Is Flynn Cohen to Prison? (SCO Thread v. 26)

[Quipling]

Previous Thread

Current big news:

• Flynn is being sentenced today. He has cooperated in three different criminal investigations. SCO has also released a redacted memo summarizing the interview.
• 3 men have been indicted in connection with Flynn's illegal actions on behalf of Turkey. One is his business partner,two are Turkish contacts.
• Cohen was sentenced to 3 years in prison. He received a downward departure for cooperating with the SCO and SDNY.
  
• The National Enquirer is cooperating with investigators wrt Cohen's campaign finance allegations.
• OSC has filed their sentencing memo in Manafort's case. He apparently lies a lot and continued to do so throughout his purported cooperation.

Mod note from previous thread: Please post in here with regards to the subject at hand. Any general chat can go in the WR Lounge thread.

Just to be clear, going forward, these type of posts also count of derailing:
1. Talking about how the thread is derailed/ how mods should handle a situation (report and continue on topic discussions)
2. Joking about posters who are reply banned from the thread
3. Posts with only flaming that do not have any other information about the topic
4. A reply to any of the above

Stop doing these. This isn't some game of getting each other reply bans and infractions. Just stay on topic, report when needed. We have the WR OT for posts like the ones above but they have no place in a normal thread.

Major events so far:

• Manafort, Trump's campaign manager and transition committee member has been indicted arising from misconduct reaching into 2017 related to payments received through 2014 from the pro-russia faction of Ukraine's pre-war government. Manafort pleaded guilty agreed to cooperate with federal prosecutors, and then lied to them.
• Michael Cohen, Trump's attorney, has pleaded guilty to campaign finance violations, which he claims to have committed at Trump's direction to influence the election. Cohen cooperated with federal prosecutors and received a 3-year sentence.
• Allen Weisselberg, the Trump Org. CFO, has agreed to immunity in exchange for cooperating with federal prosecutors
• Rick Gates has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiring (with Manafort) to commiting tax fraud, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to the FBI
• George Papadopolous pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators in 2017 about activities occuring 2016-17. Admits to meeting with various Russian officials regarding setting up meetings and "dirt" on Hillary while acting on behalf of the Trump campaign, something he previously denied. Papadopoulos is now accusing Mifsud of being a deep state plant on Twitter.
• Mike Flynn, Trump's National Security Advisor, has also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about several meetings that he had with the Russian ambassador. Flynn was allegedly involved in other business involving Turkey, but has not yet been charged with respect to that behavior.
• 13 Russian indictment for activity starting in 2014 and continuing through 2017. A US citizen pleaded guilty for agreeing to help them. There is also a separate 12 count indictment targeting GRU officers
• An attorney linked to Manafort, Gates, and a Russian oligarch has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI
• Yohai, Manafort's former son-in-law has agreed to cooperate with the Justice Department
• Daniels's lawsuit has somehow, insanely, gotten linked up to the Mueller investigation thanks to alleged wrongdoing and influence-peddling by Michael Cohen. Who has pleaded guilty and offered to fully cooperate.
• Twelve Russian intelligence officers have been indicted for conspiracy against the United States and aggravated identity theft
• Bruce Ohr, of dossier fame, has been working to obtain information from Russian oligarchs since 2014.
• Documents relating to Manafort's guilty plea implicate Tony Podesta. Tony Podesta is the brother of Clinton's campaign advisor, John Podesta. His former firm, which is now cooperating with the probe, worked for Manafort in Ukraine.

Dumb talking points:

Spoiler

Collusion isn't a crime!
No. Conspiracy to do crimes is.
That wasn't a criminal campaign finance violation because Edwards!
The sticking point was willfullness. That's satisfied in Trump's case.
Fruit of the poisonious tree!
That excludes evidence obtained during an illegal search. You need to identify that search. It also doesn't vacate guilty pleas.
Comey told Flynn not to bring a lawyer!
Nope. He said he could, but other lawyers would also be involved. That's ok. Also, not letting someone have a lawyer comes under the fifth amendment and requires other circumstances not applicable here.
They already had what they needed! The like wasn't material! Perjury trap!
Materiality turns on whether something is important to the investigation. X can be a material fact even if there's already evidence on that specific issue, because lying about x keeps the investigator to getting to underlying facts. In Flynn's case, lying about whether he had certain contacts meant investigators couldn't get to the underlying nature of the contacts.
The 304 has the wrong date!
That's an actual nothingburger
Phones deleted!
Yeah, after having their data reviewed by a federal agent.

 

[JDragon]

This is it! This is the thread that will conclude the Mueller thread series!

 

[Quipling]

This is it! This is the thread that will conclude the Mueller thread series!

 

[FIMN]

Thread title game is fiyahh

 

[Prutfis]

I predict a lot of

 

[Quipling]

Thread title game is fiyahh

I was holding out for news that made
Flynn, Stone, and the Steele dossier
appropriate but it never happened.

 

[DEN]

Should be an entertaining day. Fingers crossed that Flynn's chicanery fucked him over.

 

[andnowweknow]

I predict a lot of

Liberal hoax witch hunt rape of America. By illegals.

 

[Joe]

 

[Joe]

the best people

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

the best people

What a couple of tards

 

[Andy Capp]

I was holding out for news that made
Flynn, Stone, and the Steele dossier
appropriate but it never happened.

It ain't over yet. If he gets back in front of the cameras, I offer, Like a Trolling Stone.

Anyway your title is effing great.

the best people

Only needed to dress up like one part of a horse imo.

 

[bobgeese]

the best people

Pretty funny TBH...

 

[NoDak]

Lol, amazing.

 

[Andy Capp]

Re-posting this here since, as people flock to the new thread, posts at the end of the old one may not be seen.

From this story, Two ex-business associates of Michael Flynn charged with illegally lobbying for Turkey we have,

"In fact, Flynn had called a senior transition official at Trump's Florida resort, Mar-a-Lago, to talk about what he should say to Kislyak about the sanctions that had been announced, and he followed up later to report the upshot of the conversation with the ambassador, according to his plea agreement. People familiar with the case have said the official was Flynn's deputy, K.T. McFarland."

I don't know how this slipped by, but if it's true, isn't that solid proof of the conspiracy everyone has been asking for?

Edit: and if it's not, why not?

 

[Fawlty]

It's crazy how minor the things are that Flynn now admits to lying about. He could have just said that the transition team wanted to get word to Russia to wait until they took office before deciding how to react to the expulsion of spies diplomats. Given how gently federal law enforcement handles high level government crooks, there is almost no chance he would have been convicted of a crime had he just told them the truth. Even if the truth is, as suspected, quid pro quo and other shady shit that we won't hear all the details about until the whole investigation is unclassified one day, nobody is getting hammered except Manafort (who more than earned it). The FBI, like it or not, is handling American conspirators here quite gently. It's best to tell the truth and take the minor lumps. That's only untrue if there's actually something much graver and more sinister brewing that they are hiding, which I don't think there is. It's probably about what it looks like on the surface.

 

[Andy Capp]

Mixed feelings about this:

"Despite Flynn's admissions that he lied about three things -- including policy requests he made to then-Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the transition -- Mueller's team has asked the judge to sentence Flynn to minimal or even no time.
Three previous defendants in Mueller's probe -- Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen, the Dutch lawyer Alex van der Zwaan and former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos -- pleaded guilty to the same crime of lying. Each received sentences that included prison time. But none of those men helped investigators as broadly, willingly or sincerely as Flynn, Mueller's team has said."

I have to believe there's a really big potty of gold at the end of this twisted crime-riddled rainbow. But as in my post above, that is becoming more likely considering there now appears to be proof of quid pro quo between the Russian Ambassador and the Trump campaign.

 

[Andy Capp]

It's crazy how minor the things are that Flynn now admits to lying about. He could have just said that the transition team wanted to get word to Russia to wait until they took office before deciding how to react to the expulsion of spies diplomats. Given how gently federal law enforcement handles high level government crooks, there is almost no chance he would have been convicted of a crime had he just told them the truth. Even if the truth is, as suspected, quid pro quo and other shady shit that we won't hear all the details about until the whole investigation is unclassified one day, nobody is getting hammered except Manafort (who more than earned it). The FBI, like it or not, is handling American conspirators here quite gently. It's best to tell the truth and take the minor lumps. That's only untrue if there's actually something much graver and more sinister brewing that they are hiding, which I don't think there is. It's probably about what it looks like on the surface.

I disagree, but it may be wishful thinking on my part. I think the reason he's getting a light sentence is because he gave up the goods on the aforementioned quid pro quo.

Edit: Apologies, missed this part:
Flynn is also central to the potential obstruction of justice case surrounding Trump's interactions with former FBI Director James Comey. According to a memo Comey wrote in February 2017, the President asked him to drop the investigation into Flynn.
Mueller's team has described on multiple occasions how Flynn misled members of the Trump administration about his contacts with Kislyak, which then prompted those public officials to share false information with the American public.

 

[DEN]

It's crazy how minor the things are that Flynn now admits to lying about. He could have just said that the transition team wanted to get word to Russia to wait until they took office before deciding how to react to the expulsion of spies diplomats. Given how gently federal law enforcement handles high level government crooks, there is almost no chance he would have been convicted of a crime had he just told them the truth. Even if the truth is, as suspected, quid pro quo and other shady shit that we won't hear all the details about until the whole investigation is unclassified one day, nobody is getting hammered except Manafort (who more than earned it). The FBI, like it or not, is handling American conspirators here quite gently. It's best to tell the truth and take the minor lumps. That's only untrue if there's actually something much graver and more sinister brewing that they are hiding, which I don't think there is. It's probably about what it looks like on the surface.

What it appears to be on the surface is the most heinous crime ever perpetrated against western democracy with basically all of America's politicians being complicit due to avarice and cowardice.

 

[Fawlty]

Mixed feelings about this:

"Despite Flynn's admissions that he lied about three things -- including policy requests he made to then-Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the transition -- Mueller's team has asked the judge to sentence Flynn to minimal or even no time.
Three previous defendants in Mueller's probe -- Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen, the Dutch lawyer Alex van der Zwaan and former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos -- pleaded guilty to the same crime of lying. Each received sentences that included prison time. But none of those men helped investigators as broadly, willingly or sincerely as Flynn, Mueller's team has said."

I have to believe there's a really big potty of gold at the end of this twisted crime-riddled rainbow. But as in my post above, that is becoming more likely considering there now appears to be proof of quid pro quo between the Russian Ambassador and the Trump campaign.

The FBI cares about the integrity of government - unironically, that is - the government holding together, and they credit Flynn's military and public service highly. They want to set the American ship right probably more than they want to lock people up. I wouldn't feel safe betting on these soft sentences leading to a pot of gold or something we don't already strongly suspect to be true. Maybe money laundering. That's the only bombshell that has been suggested but hasn't dropped, which I think is almost certainly true.