IRS guilty, ordered to pay 3.5 million to conservatives..

[Big Nasty Edison]

The fact that Hillary got away scot-free with destroying 33,000 pieces of relevant evidence, and James Comey has admitted on film to leaking information, is very good evidence for a two-tiered legal system.

For people like Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton, and James Comey, if you work to further the establishment's goals, then you can live under the philosophy of "The rules are for thee, not for me!".

The fact that crimes committed by agents of the establishment go ignored, yet investigations based upon no evidence go on for years against populist political leaders, hasn't been forgotten by the electorate. It's likely a very large reason why Trump was elected in 2016, and it's one of the reasons he has my vote in the year 2020.

Delusional post of the day. 23049823048 Hillary investigations, and she is indicted 0 times but still yelping out emails.

Ongoing investigation to the Trump campaign, evidence of bribery to his personal lawyers, indictments and guilty please from campaign staff, meetings with Russians in Trump Tower among piles and piles of other evidence = "dindunuffin".

and now clinging to "but but but Obama did an IRS!!!!!!"

You guys are just sad.

 

[ShinkanPo]

*didn't

Jesus... lol..

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Yes. I like seeing opinions on all sides, but I actually think it helps you get a more balanced view by ignoring the real dregs of the other side (otherwise I might be led to believe that people like geese and BW were representative of the right and just dismiss right-wing thinking). I regularly read many right-wing pundits who I respect, and I'm happy to engage the better right-wing posters here.

I dunno, I tried to discuss the environment with someone on here, and how saying all people on the right don't believe in climate change is a fallacy. They didn't want to hear it tho.

I don't think anything's been minimized. The story just didn't turn out to be what was originally feared.



The IRS is special among agencies, though, in that it really is kept very separate from the administration. And, yes, IRS scandals by design end at the IRS. They're pretty much unique among agencies in that way (and for good reason--the whole point is to prevent it from being used as a weapon against political enemies). Also, what we're seeing here can be more reasonably attributed to sloth than to sleaze, though even that is somewhat unfair. They had more work than they could handle, and they took a shortcut, which was poorly thought-out because targeted groups had a legitimate gripe about the fairness (though it had nothing to with partisanship, as they used keywords that helped identify political groups all over the spectrum).

I personally think they could IRS easily have contact/connections to people within congress, staff members, etc. I don't mind disagreeing here tho,as it isn't proven. I do agree we need more IRS agents. Sloth allows sleaze and other bad elements fester. Having to more IRS agents would bring down shady people in business, which would likely lead to paper trails to a number of people in politics. But that is a story that repeats itself in any age, 1000 years ago, and 1000 years in the future. The wheel weaves, as the wheel wills, as they say,

 

[nac386]

Haha, I don't blame you for not wanting to. I mean, I just tried with that Jack that dude, and look how that went. But my point was that he and others on here have their fragile ego rustled by a troll remark about Obama, so they have to completely put their head in the dirt to a much bigger issue.


I agree that no one was supporting Sanders at that time, and about the "progressive" groups. However, "Occupy" people, who are against Wall street and big companies were likely against Obama (wall street bail out big healthcare), are generally more middle of the pack people. A lot of them are the types who register as one party, but often vote for the other party, depending on the candidates. So my marginalizing that would be in support someone like Paul (who you said would take votes from Romney), you help ensure that it is Romney vs Obama, rather than a dark horse like Paul (or Sanders).

Not just saying it is democrats either. Higher ups in the GOP, Fox news and other conservative media outlets all downplayed him, the same way the DNC, Black caucus, and liberal media treated Sanders.

If it had been Paul vs Obama, a number (not a majority) of registered democrats, would likely have voted for Paul. . Just look at our hometown, a very liberal area. Most of the people our age from that area were in support of Ron Paul, just like they wer of Sanders. This IRS thing could be one of several strategies, or an isolated incident. It is kind of weird that the IRS would take this upon themselves... meh.

That is why in the next election, the dark horse, with a legit shot (Sanders) was marginalized as well. Who would have thought Trump was going to beat Clinton (well, besides people like me who called it)? So the dark horse and threat to the establishment, Sanders, was equally marginalized, by higher ups on both sides. Only problem was it back fired because it happened one to many times, and the people in the middle got pissed off when Sanders was fucked over.

I have the personality, where I like puzzles and math, try to find patterns etc, so I always over extrapolate. I completely understanding only going off concrete facts, tho.

I could be wrong, but it seems the lawsuit was settled in 2017?

There are minor differences in the way we are seeing this, but we are more in agreement than disagreement. I completely agree that there are plenty of shady practices that undermine to some extent the very values that our elections are supposed to be based on. A guy like Sanders, who gained real traction, should be given as many opportunities to debate his opponent as possible. Not because that is best for Bernie, but because that is the entire point of a free election. The people deserve to know the candidates inside and out. I also agree that there are almost certainly elements of government that become politicized that should not be at all politicized. It's incredibly hard to control because government is made up of individuals with individual world views, but I'm sure more could be done to monitor it.

The problem i see on this forum a lot of the time is that legitimate issues are approached wrapped up in a package of bullshit, and before the conversation can move forward, we have to sift through the bullshit. If the bullshit is ignored, it is an acceptance that it is real. But it's not. This thread could have easily been made entirely based on the facts, and avoided some of the wasted posts that were correcting all the misconceptions. Both sides are guilty of that to some degree, there just happens to be a few posters on the right that go crazy overboard with it.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Delusional post of the day. 23049823048 Hillary investigations, and she is indicted 0 times but still yelping out emails.

Ongoing investigation to the Trump campaign, evidence of bribery to his personal lawyers, indictments and guilty please from campaign staff, meetings with Russians in Trump Tower among piles and piles of other evidence = "dindunuffin".

and now clinging to "but but but Obama did an IRS!!!!!!"

You guys are just sad.

The fact that the IRS has to pay out 3.5 million dollars to conservative groups for auditing them out of participation of the 2012 election, it appears that our system of justice disagrees with your sentiments, 3.5 million times.

 

[Bloodworth]

Hey your beef is with dhalsim guy over there don't take it on me.

I just thought your exchanges are funny thats all. So why try to insult me?


Jesus I can't believe you have to reply to that.

Have fun with it...

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

The fact that the IRS has to pay out 3.5 million dollars to conservative groups for auditing them out of participation of the 2012 election, it appears that our system of justice disagrees with your sentiments, 3.5 million times.

Yeah, too bad the progressive and occupy groups aren't as litigious as "patriot" groups since, you know, they were targeted as well.

Conservative victim complex rearing its ugly head again, with a dash of paranoia and tin foil.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I dunno, I tried to discuss the environment with someone on here, and how saying all people on the right don't believe in climate change is a fallacy. They didn't want to hear it tho.

I know that all people on the right don't reject climate science. However, a recent study showed that only 30% or so accept that it's primarily caused by human activity, which is shockingly bad. And roughly 0% of Republican elected officials support any action to address the problem, which is the bigger problem.

I personally think they could IRS easily have contact/connections to people within congress, staff members, etc. I don't mind disagreeing here tho,as it isn't proven. I do agree we need more IRS agents. Sloth allows sleaze and other bad elements fester. Having to more IRS agents would bring down shady people in business, which would likely lead to paper trails to a number of people in politics. But that is a story that repeats itself in any age, 1000 years ago, and 1000 years in the future. The wheel weaves, as the wheel wills, as they say,

Well, I think we're on the same page regarding the actual solution here.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Yeah, too bad the progressive and occupy groups aren't as litigious as "patriot" groups since, you know, they were targeted as well.

Conservative victim complex rearing its ugly head again, with a dash of paranoia and tin foil.

A "victim complex" is an award of 3.5 million dollars for political targeting.

0/10 attempt at minimizing.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

A "victim complex" is an award of 3.5 million dollars for political targeting.

0/10 attempt at minimizing.

You're doing a great job at avoiding acknowledging progressive groups were targeted during same time frame.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

You're doing a great job at avoiding acknowledging progressive groups were targeted during same time frame.

Any alleged targeting that went after leftist groups, obviously didn't merit a 3.5 million dollar payment.


These supposed targeting of leftist groups by the IRS is actually covered at length in the video I provided before, but I'll just provided again for you here:

 

[cottagecheesefan]

There are minor differences in the way we are seeing this, but we are more in agreement than disagreement. I completely agree that there are plenty of shady practices that undermine to some extent the very values that our elections are supposed to be based on. A guy like Sanders, who gained real traction, should be given as many opportunities to debate his opponent as possible. Not because that is best for Bernie, but because that is the entire point of a free election. The people deserve to know the candidates inside and out. I also agree that there are almost certainly elements of government that become politicized that should not be at all politicized. It's incredibly hard to control because government is made up of individuals with individual world views, but I'm sure more could be done to monitor it.

The problem i see on this forum a lot of the time is that legitimate issues are approached wrapped up in a package of bullshit, and before the conversation can move forward, we have to sift through the bullshit. If the bullshit is ignored, it is an acceptance that it is real. But it's not. This thread could have easily been made entirely based on the facts, and avoided some of the wasted posts that were correcting all the misconceptions. Both sides are guilty of that to some degree, there just happens to be a few posters on the right that go crazy overboard with it.

That is why I like discussing things with you. We have discussed many things over the years, and despite me generally being more right leaning, and you left, we tend to always see quite a lot of middle ground.

I know that all people on the right don't reject climate science. However, a recent study showed that only 30% or so accept that it's primarily caused by human activity, which is shockingly bad. And roughly 0% of Republican elected officials support any action to address the problem, which is the bigger problem.

Tho I do think humans are the primary cause, I don't fault them for thinking it is not the primary source, when science is always developing, and there are lots of other things out there. Doesn't mean they don't feel humans is a strong number 2 or 3, which is why I had said that was a poorly worded question. The article also said 57% believe something needs to be done about CO2 levels. Then when you factor out the bible belters, it is a bit more promising than how you paint the party.

Then when you factor in companies like Volkwagon, who have lobbyists in congress, exploiting issues like these for profit. You see why people can become skeptical of the narratives being painted.

 

[KILL KILL]

The fact that the IRS has to pay out 3.5 million dollars to conservative groups for auditing them out of participation of the 2012 election, it appears that our system of justice disagrees with your sentiments, 3.5 million times.

Trump paid $25 mil to Trump University scam victims. Why the double standard, my friend?

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Trump paid $25 mil to Trump University scam victims. Why the double standard, my friend?

Private individual vs. Tax arm of the State targeting political rivals of a sitting President.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Tho I do think humans are the primary cause, I don't fault them for thinking it is not the primary source, when science is always developing, and there are lots of other things out there. Doesn't mean they don't feel humans is a strong number 2 or 3, which is why I had said that was a poorly worded question. The article also said 57% believe something needs to be done about CO2 levels. Then when you factor out the bible belters, it is a bit more promising than how you paint the party.

People aren't rejecting the science because they're examining the evidence and coming up with a different theory. It's a matter of trusting the right-wing alternative reality system more than credible sources. And its good that a decent portion support reducing carbon emissions, but none of the party's leadership does, and that's what really matters if we're talking about setting policy.

Then when you factor in companies like Volkwagon, who have lobbyists in congress, exploiting issues like these for profit. You see why people can become skeptical of the narratives being painted.

I think you have the VW scandal a little mixed up. They were actually polluting and cheating the tests to get away with it. They would have loved not to have to meet emission standards. They had to pay a $3B fine and spend $18B getting their shit together, plus their stock lost billions in market cap.

 

[KILL KILL]

Private individual vs. Tax arm of the State targeting political rivals of a sitting President.

I understand that. I would consider them both disgusting. But one of them is currently the most powerful person in the country. A person you actively support on this forum.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I understand that. I would consider them both disgusting. But one of them is currently the most powerful person in the country. A person you actively support on this forum.

At the time, he was just a private citizen dealing with some unsatisfied customers.

The IRS auditing the political rivals of a current sitting President out of participation of a Presidential election is a scandal of the highest order.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

People aren't rejecting the science because they're examining the evidence and coming up with a different theory. It's a matter of trusting the right-wing alternative reality system more than credible sources. And its good that a decent portion support reducing carbon emissions, but none of the party's leadership does, and that's what really matters if we're talking about setting policy..

For some, a lot in the middle, it isn't trusting the right wing, alternate reality, it is just that the environment isn't as big of an issue during elections. I do agree that a lot of typical republicans, especially long serving ones, have a terrible track record with the enviornment. I also feel they are being slowly phased out as the older generation dies off. Not saying Trump is better than these typical republicans, but I do feel him winning the republican primary shows a general shift away from that typical "party of morals" etc.

Like some in coal country, I am sure hates their family going into a dangerous mine, risking their health. But at the end of the day, who is going to come into that specific town, give funding for the materials and building of the infrastructure, and provide the same number of jobs to these areas?

I think you have the VW scandal a little mixed up. They were actually polluting and cheating the tests to get away with it. They would have loved not to have to meet emission standards. They had to pay a $3B fine and spend $18B getting their shit together, plus their stock lost billions in market cap.

I know they were cheating the tests. But they also acted like they were one of the pioneers in the auto industry, advocating for the changes. Most people who buy their cars are most likely people on the left. Typical wolf in sheep's clothes. Scandals like that make people skeptical of who else is exploiting issues.

 

[Jack V Savage]

For some, a lot in the middle, it isn't trusting the right wing, alternate reality, it is just that the environment isn't as big of an issue during elections.

But 70% reject reality on the issue. That is huge, and not something that can be waved away. The rejection of non-partisan information sources is rotting the brain and morals of the right in America.

I do agree that a lot of typical republicans, especially long serving ones, have a terrible track record with the enviornment. I also feel they are being slowly phased out as the older generation dies off. Not saying Trump is better than these typical republicans, but I do feel him winning the republican primary shows a general shift away from that typical "party of morals" etc.

Well, I certainly agree that Trump's election represents a move away from the "party of morals." But there are still no Republican leaders willing to do anything about climate change or to really do anything different from what W did (regressive tax cuts, deregulation, aggressive foreign policy).

Like some in coal country, I am sure hates their family going into a dangerous mine, risking their health. But at the end of the day, who is going to come into that specific town, give funding for the materials and building of the infrastructure, and provide the same number of jobs to these areas?

Obama spearheaded a plan.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...ministration-idea-to-save-coal-country-214885

As part of the 2016 budget, the Obama White House created something called the POWER Plus plan specifically to help Appalachian communities that were getting left behind because of the rapidly changing energy market. The acronym stands for Partnerships for Opportunity and Workforce and Economic Revitalization, and it proposed a suite of projects including to convert $1 billion from the Abandoned Mine Lands reserve—a pot of money that had been growing since the Carter administration—funding for projects to clean up abandoned mine lands, mostly underground, that are linked to local economic development strategies. For Kentucky alone, that would mean $20 million a year for five years. The money would likely have gone to promote other businesses sectors like manufacturing and tourism and to retrain miners for new jobs like writing computer code.

Killed by Republicans, who obviously didn't bring coal jobs back either.

I know they were cheating the tests. But they also acted like they were one of the pioneers in the auto industry, advocating for the changes. Most people who buy their cars are most likely people on the left. Typical wolf in sheep's clothes. Scandals like that make people skeptical of who else is exploiting issues.

Should make people skeptical of polluting companies rather than attempts to fight pollution.

 

[KILL KILL]

At the time, he was just a private citizen dealing with some unsatisfied customers.

The IRS auditing the political rivals of a current sitting President out of participation of a Presidential election is a scandal of the highest order.

I would say both are extremely important scandals, but only one gets you riled up. Why do you think that is?