Iranian Woman Arrested for Posting "Nude" Photos

I like your devil's advocate shtick in these threads but even as a Persia-phile I have to say this is not the hill to die on.

But it's not even Devil's Advocate, its just pointing out hypocrisy. In America, we literally--right now--have women organizing to march in the streets in protest of how they are discussed and demeaned, and people are acting like Iran is some super barbarous nation. None of these people actually know anything about Iran, mind you, other than what they hear from news outlets that they dont even trust.

Its just an incredible lack of self-awareness, a lack of globoal perspective, and a failed understanding of history. I'm a hardcore relativist--i'm not bothered by any position anyone holds, as long as they have a sound basis for holding it. But to call a country barbous because of one aspect of their society that is, at most, 50 years behind our American equivalent--especially when America is directly responsible for that setback--is obtuse and it grinds my gears.

Mainly, though, Persian women are so sexy that i'm willing to white knight their entire culture on an internet message board if it increases by even .01% my chances of hooking up with one.
 
I like your devil's advocate shtick in these threads but even as a Persia-phile I have to say this is not the hill to die on.

But it's not even Devil's Advocate, its just pointing out hypocrisy. In America, we literally--right now--have women organizing to march in the streets in protest of how they are discussed and demeaned, and people are acting like Iran is some super barbarous nation. None of these people actually know anything about Iran, mind you, other than what they hear from news outlets that they dont even trust.

Its just an incredible lack of self-awareness, a lack of globoal perspective, and a failed understanding of history. I'm a hardcore relativist--i'm not bothered by any position anyone holds, as long as they have a sound basis for holding it. But to call a country barbous because of one aspect of their society that is, at most, 50 years behind our American equivalent--especially when America is directly responsible for that setback--is obtuse and it grinds my gears.

Mainly, though, Persian women are so sexy that i'm willing to white knight their entire culture on an internet message board if it increases by even .01% my chances of hooking up with one.
 
Can't blame them those are some sexy elbows, even I'm feeling a little rapey, which is obviously her fault.
 
Thats pointless, a shitload of Iranians dont consider Islamic dress codes to be the cultural norm for nudity or not.

Yeah, Iranians tend to be completely different from their shitty regime. Educated and relatively liberal.

Also, Iranians are natural western allies in the fight against Salafism and Sunni nutjobs and general terrorism.

If Obama got one thing right, it was to normalise relationships with Tehran. And if there is one thing that Trump is about to mess up, it is to reverse that to the traditional American ME policy of supporting Saudi Arabia and Israel, which are likely the two most destabilising countries in that shitty region. But I digress.
 
But it's not even Devil's Advocate, its just pointing out hypocrisy. In America, we literally--right now--have women organizing to march in the streets in protest of how they are discussed and demeaned, and people are acting like Iran is some super barbarous nation. None of these people actually know anything about Iran, mind you, other than what they hear from news outlets that they dont even trust.

Its just an incredible lack of self-awareness, a lack of globoal perspective, and a failed understanding of history. I'm a hardcore relativist--i'm not bothered by any position anyone holds, as long as they have a sound basis for holding it. But to call a country barbous because of one aspect of their society that is, at most, 50 years behind our American equivalent--especially when America is directly responsible for that setback--is obtuse and it grinds my gears.

Mainly, though, Persian women are so sexy that i'm willing to white knight their entire culture on an internet message board if it increases by even .01% my chances of hooking up with one.
Let's be honest though, there is a bit of a gulf between women's rights in America and women's rights in Iran. But this point is a good one.
 
Is a woman's exposed breast considered nudity? If I say it is, am I modern and progressive or backwards and uncivilized?

A country with a continuous civilization on the other side of the planet does not--and, logistically, cannot--have the same norms as our culture. If an Iranian said, "Gays are accepted by society!? Whoah, that's so 3000 B.C." I'd tell them to shut up.



Are tits shown on NBC?
I haven't had cable in years so I wouldn't know. Last time i checked, a tit was off limits. Violent shooting was accepted. Immoral behavior like cheating was accepted- but God forbid a titty.
 
You clearly dont know many persian ex-pats.
What do you expect? Most of these guys live in bumfuck nowhere. Persians are some of the chillest people you will ever meet. They're highly educated and a lot are not hardcore Muslim (or even Muslim at all).
 
Not only are they Caucasians they are Aryans. In fact Iran means land of the Aryans.
They are mostly of non-Aryan stock. Naming a country Land of the Aryans does not make it so; if Mexico named itself Whitelandia, it doesn't mean it is a White country. Iranians speak an Indo-Iranian language, that doesn't make them Aryan, anymore than Anatolian Turks are Turkic , Bangladeshis are Aryan and Egyptians are Arab.
 
Was curious till I saw the word Bodybuilder. Fucking gross dude.
 
They are mostly of non-Aryan stock. Naming a country Land of the Aryans does not make it so; if Mexico named itself Whitelandia, it doesn't mean it is a White country. Iranians speak an Indo-Iranian language, that doesn't make them Aryan, anymore than Anatolian Turks are Turkic , Bangladeshis are Aryan and Egyptians are Arab.

Actually they would be the original Aryans.

The myth that a perfect blonde, blue eyed, nordic individual lived in central asia and invented proto-indo-european culture is that, a myth. The aryan race as envisioned by the nazis didnt existed, they were central asians that populated the Stans and Iran.

The whole northern europeans taking credit for all previous civilizations is just sheer cultural appropiation, they want us to believe that ancient egyptian, greeks, persians, indians, phoenicians, romans and the such were all tall blue eyed nords.
 
Let her come to the US, we can use more people like her.
 
What do you expect? Most of these guys live in bumfuck nowhere. Persians are some of the chillest people you will ever meet. They're highly educated and a lot are not hardcore Muslim (or even Muslim at all).
The ones here are educated because Persian immigration to the US is highly self selected. The educated and upper class made it after the revolution. I lived in Gulf ; and there were Persians there from all walks of life, from educated to small shopkeeper
Actually they would be the original Aryans.

The myth that a perfect blonde, blue eyed, nordic individual lived in central asia and invented proto-indo-european culture is that, a myth. The aryan race as envisioned by the nazis didnt existed, they were central asians that populated the Stans and Iran.

The whole northern europeans taking credit for all previous civilizations is just sheer cultural appropiation, they want us to believe that ancient egyptian, greeks, persians, indians, phoenicians, romans and the such were all tall blue eyed nords.
Didn't say anything about Aryans being Nordic looking or wrong Nazi/18th century European ideas on Aryans.

The original Indo-Iranians themselves were mixed, most probably were brunettes with a small light haired elite. In any case that isn't really pertinent to this discussion.

The reason I said Iranians or even Persians are mostly of non Aryan stock is because the lands now encompassing Iran was not uninhabited when the Indo-Iranian steppe raiders entered the region around the turn of the 2nd millennium BC. They would have entered from N.E. Iran / Western Afghanistan, because that is the earliest location for Avestan speaking Indo-Iranians we known of. S.W. Iran was the home of the Elamites. North-West Iran/Northern Iran had the B.M.A.C. civilization . S.E. Iran had the Indus civlization's boundary. The Indo-Iranians were a raider elite who imposed their language on the pre-Aryan inhabitants of these regions. The Elamite heartland was the center of the Persian civilization and the Indo-Iranians did not wipe out these people, they just imposed their language on them. Elamite continued being used for centuries after Indo-Iranian conquest. The region where the Elamites lived is dominant in Y-dna J2 , not the R1a1a of the Indo-Iranians. The N.E. / Northern region of Iran is where you find the bulk of R1a1a. R1a1a frequency in Iran is only around 35% , so the Aryans never did a demographic replacement.

Just like India (most but not all) ,Pakistan,Bangladesh,Sri Lanka,Nepal - Iran is mostly just assimilated Indo-Iranian speakers. Just as Semites assimilated Sumerians and other non-Semitic speakers, the Indo-Europeans assimilated non-Indo-Europeans. Tajiks are probably the closest to the original Aryans.

As far as cultural appropriation goes: Europeans aren't the only ones. Those South Asians and Iranians claiming Aryan descent and then taking credit for the ancient civilizations and intellectual creation of these regions are also culturally appropriating the work of non-Aryans. Aryans were a semi-nomadic pastoral group of raiders and colonists; the people they conquered in these regions were way more advanced than them.

Saying Iranians are Aryans is like saying Mexicans are Spanish.
 
Difference in severity and harshness are still differences. You think it's immoral to restrict what women wear in public? Exactly how much of a woman's body can be legally uncovered to avoid immorality?

I agree it's harsh, if that's what you want. But "Iran has harsh laws" is hardly threadworthy.

Iran's laws are so cool
 
Let's be honest though, there is a bit of a gulf between women's rights in America and women's rights in Iran. But this point is a good one.

Bit of a gulf for who? Iran isn't Afghanistan. They have a glass ceiling, not a glass basement. In terms of public power and representation, Iranian women aren't more than a few decades behind American women. In terms of social mores, Islam is the state religion and Iran has an authoritative government that places restrictions on both men and women. The religion and--to a far lesser extent--the government are "agreed" upon by both the men and women of Iran. It's not like only the men are Muslims.

There's a larger conversation to be had about how we determine a culture's civility based largely on the status of its women, which seems arbitrary to me. Pretty much every culture on earth that has restrictions on female behavior is considered barbaric. As if punishing female behavior is such an unthinkable thing. Meanwhile, 93% of American prison inmates are male and no one has raised the possibility that maybe our entire justice system is slanted against men far more than Sharia Law is slanted against women, and that our system contains its own equal but differently evolved barbarism.

^Personal rant. I may make another thread about it.
 
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on a serious note, female body building is disgusting and should be banned.
 
Bit of a gulf for who? Iran isn't Afghanistan. They have a glass ceiling, not a glass basement. In terms of public power and representation, Iranian women aren't more than a few decades behind American women. In terms of social mores, Islam is the state religion and Iran has an authoritative government that places restrictions on both men and women. The religion and--to a far lesser extent--the government are "agreed" upon by both the men and women of Iran. It's not like only the men are Muslims.
I would say the difference between Iran and Afghanistan has more to do with development than political rights, which both have garbage records on. I do see your point but I just reject it as a sufficient defense of the Iranian case because I feel that there the government sanctioned gender double standard is egregiously oppressive. If this were the case of certain Indonesian localities, where female civil servants are required to wear the hijab, I would agree. I really don't see that as worse than mandating male civil servants wear a useless piece of cloth tied around their necks in an unnecessarily elaborate fashion(i.e. a tie).

But let's imagine for instance that instead of simply being a dress code for professionals like civil servants, wearing a tie became mandatory for all men at all times in the public sphere and that any photos of you not wearing a tie made you liable to get arrested. I would say that's a bit much.
There's a larger conversation to be had about how we determine a culture's civility based largely on the status of its women, which seems arbitrary to me. Pretty much every culture on earth that has restrictions on female behavior is considered barbaric. As if punishing female behavior is such an unthinkable thing. Meanwhile, 93% of American prison inmates are male and no one has raised the possibility that maybe our entire justice system is slanted against men far more than Sharia Law is slanted against women, and that our system contains its own equal but differently evolved barbarism.

^Personal rant. I may make another thread about it.
Here I actually agree with you as a person who not only rejects feminism because, as many in the West have, of what the movement has turned into but also because I reject the fundamental axiom that men and women should be completely equal before the law. Which is not to say that I believe state and society should engineer inequality between the sexes but rather that I believe men and women are different in ways that are relevant to the law(e.g. reproductive rights). But at the same time in the absence of a compelling reason I do think the default assumption of the state should be equality and that the state should avoid using its power to dictate the minutia of the lives of men or women.

As far as the point about men in the West as it relates to certain inequalities, I also agree with you there. Wherever the inequality is in the favor of women its often something that goes unmentioned. For instance, the lack of women in STEM fields leads to initiatives to encourage women to change that and there is a broader discussion about how the subculture of these fields might be "misogynist". But, at least as far as I know, the same is not done for fields like psychology where women are the majority.

So I'm all about interrogating our own double standards and inequalities as well as developing a nuanced understanding of the differences between cultures and where those differences might not be as bad as they seem. But that should not preclude us from critiquing other cultures, whether against our own norms or on their own terms, and in the case of Iran I feel the government policy regarding female modesty is an egregious overreach and is seen as much by women's rights activist in that country, both by the more Westernized variety and the so called Islamic feminists.

EDIT: And personally I'd like to see that thread if you make it.
 
Are tits shown on NBC?
I haven't had cable in years so I wouldn't know. Last time i checked, a tit was off limits. Violent shooting was accepted. Immoral behavior like cheating was accepted- but God forbid a titty.

I don't think much has changed in the way of tits being against the rules to show on TV since JT ripped off Janet Jackson's article of clothing *I'm not current with women's fashion and have no idea what the name of it was*.

EDIT: Reading through this thread, I think we need to start encouraging more Iranian immigrants both male and female and start offering chances to women who live in countries that view them as less than animals to come here.
 
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