Inside Low Kicks - Hajime Kazumi (Kyokushin Technical Breakdown)

[ssullivan80]

I've never thought much about the width of my stance, other than that I stand with my feet narrow when I'm at kicking range, so I can throw either side and counter kick easier, and I stand with them a little wider when I'm close, so that I can punch easier and maybe defend in the clinch. What else is there to this or am I wrong at the basic level?

Your not wrong at all. The width of your stance is really not what's most important, it's the balance and mobility that your stance either allows or impedes you from maintaining that is important. If your stance is balanced and you can maintain mobility, then it becomes a game of "positioning" that is what's really important. Your stance may need to change/adapt (width, square vs. narrow, elevation) in order to gain the upper hand in the positioning battle. The overall concept of stance/positioning battle is to limit or nullify your opponents options while maintaining all/more of yours. Hence, the concept of range/reach, angles, leverage (limiting your opponents mobility, taking him off balance) come into play. All of which are created by using footwork
(which necessitates the need for balance/mobility) to create dominant positioning, the "stance" then just becomes the bi-product of the positioning battle.

 

[SummerStriker]

Your not wrong at all. The width of your stance is really not what's most important, it's the balance and mobility that your stance either allows or impedes you from maintaining that is important. If your stance is balanced and you can maintain mobility, then it becomes a game of "positioning" that is what's really important. Your stance may need to change/adapt (width, square vs. narrow, elevation) in order to gain the upper hand in the positioning battle. The overall concept of stance/positioning battle is to limit or nullify your opponents options while maintaining all/more of yours. Hence, the concept of range/reach, angles, leverage (limiting your opponents mobility, taking him off balance) come into play. All of which are created by using footwork
(which necessitates the need for balance/mobility) to create dominant positioning, the "stance" then just becomes the bi-product of the positioning battle.

Woo, that's some smart shit bro. Thanks. I'll have to digest it with a human punching bag in front of me.

 

[KarateStylist]

I've never thought much about the width of my stance, other than that I stand with my feet narrow when I'm at kicking range, so I can throw either side and counter kick easier, and I stand with them a little wider when I'm close, so that I can punch easier and maybe defend in the clinch. What else is there to this or am I wrong at the basic level?

There's a recent T on BL and stance, tactical in nature. You comments puts the issue in a better, general light.

Just as you've said, the stance you pick functions to support the technique you've chosen or would hope to employ for the situation....

So, you've satisfied your basic kickboxing purpose.

:icon_arro In traditional karate though, the stance has a even more base purpose, of supporting & then projecting strength into power, which includes a very disciplined way.

The success of Kyo stylist, Hajimi Kazumi, over his less disciplined opponents, who all have good kyo technique, is strong evidence of the good physical base + mentally disciplined use of that base.

Unlike the undisciplined exchange between Hendo & Rua discussed earlier.... Maybe I'll put up TSD Mommy to demonstrate.... the base....

KarateStylist

 

[SummerStriker]

There's a recent T on BL and stance, tactical in nature. You comments puts the issue in a better, general light.

Just as you've said, the stance you pick functions to support the technique you've chosen or would hope to employ for the situation....

So, you've satisfied your basic kickboxing purpose.

:icon_arro In traditional karate though, the stance has a even more base purpose, of supporting & then projecting strength into power, which includes a very disciplined way.

The success of Kyo stylist, Hajimi Kazumi, over his less disciplined opponents, who all have good kyo technique, is strong evidence of the good physical base + mentally disciplined use of that base.

Unlike the undisciplined exchange between Hendo & Rua discussed earlier.... Maybe I'll put up TSD Mommy to demonstrate.... the base....

KarateStylist

I did traditional Kempo when I was younger. In free style sparring with boxers and mma people later, I never found a place for the strong power generating bases I learned in karate initially, because the sparring was too light.

When I did "full contact" (in parenthesis because we pulled punches to the head to try not to ko each other) I found that when I hurt someone, if I was fast, I could drop into a kempo style wide stance and hit them with a full chambered hard karate punch. Rather than going with a flurry, one hard kempo hit from a deep stance was great, but I had to use lighter foot work and boxing style hits to get there.

Thoughts?

 

[ssullivan80]

Here ya go:

This fight shows several examples of how to use the lead leg or inside low kick (leg kicks in general) and you'll see several variations. Ghita uses it to set up combos, mid combo, as a fake to set up rear leg/hands, etc........ Ghita's low kicks are more reminiscent of Kyokushin low kicks than MT, IMO. But to build on TS statements/points, the applicability of the Kyokushin leg kicks translates into K1/MT very well...... Dutch KB, or Dutch MT is heavily rooted in Kyokushin karate.

 

[Jukai]

Here ya go:

This fight shows several examples of how to use the lead leg or inside low kick (leg kicks in general) and you'll see several variations. Ghita uses it to set up combos, mid combo, as a fake to set up rear leg/hands, etc........ Ghita's low kicks are more reminiscent of Kyokushin low kicks than MT, IMO. But to build on TS statements/points, the applicability of the Kyokushin leg kicks translates into K1/MT very well...... Dutch KB, or Dutch MT is heavily rooted in Kyokushin karate.

Wow, fantastic example, Sullivan. Dude does use it well!

 

[KarateStylist]

I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD KEMPO STYLISTS HERE @ SHERDOG?

1. I did traditional Kempo when I was younger. In free style sparring with boxers and mma people later, I never found a place for the strong power generating bases I learned in karate initially, because the sparring was too light.

2. When I did "full contact" (in parenthesis because we pulled punches to the head to try not to ko each other) I found that when I hurt someone, if I was fast, I could drop into a kempo style wide stance and hit them with a full chambered hard karate punch. Rather than going with a flurry, one hard kempo hit from a deep stance was great, but I had to use lighter foot work and boxing style hits to get there.

Thoughts?

1. LIGHT FREE SPARRING. Forgive me if I misunderstand. I only have your summary description to go on. Are you suggesting the kempo sparring contact was 2 light?

If so, would you or could you see training for the convention of light contact does not equate with traditional karate training of putting strength into technique at some intensity, but controlling that strength so the power behind it doesn't harm your opponent?

IOW, ASSUME ONLY the playing-of-tag under light contact rules equates to say, Shotokan karate convention or even kempo convention, does this CONVENTION amount to the proper use of strength under correct principles of traditional karate kumite training???

THE ANSWER IS NO. Those who are free sparring with light contact WHO HAVE NO STRENGTH BEHIND THEIR TECHNIQUE ARE NOT PRACTICING TRADITIONAL KARATE.


Because everyone around you is doing the convention of 'light contact;' and using weak strength in their technique.... is this the correct interpretation of 'light contact?' They are wrongly confusing the convention of light-contact (what the sparring partner feels) with the convention of using light strength (or no appreciable strength) in their sparring techniques (what they are doing themselves physically).

They may be sporting, demonstrating the ability to out-tag the opponent, warming up, experimentally trying out some technique or new idea, but it's something else other than traditional karate (kempo). My 2cts.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Under traditional karate kumite, light contact = / = light strength.
---------------------------------------------------------------

2. Positioning. The issue of positioning has just been brought up in this T. Traditional karate (or kempo) proper depends on positioning, not the highly mobile jumping around you see in Shotokan and other sport karate.

Presumably, the jumping around & high mobility seen in Shotokan kumite free sparring is to compensate for the relatively low, wide stances taught in Shotokan black=belt curriculum. I believe Kempo mimics actual fighting better, hence generally deploys higher stances to alleviate the immobile character of low stances...,

The more global principle of traditional karate is to position, using stances. If you are having trouble moving efficiently or adroitly using karate stances, is it the fault of the stances, or the fault of your ability to mentally transition among & between stances in a disciplined way?

The Kyo practitioner who is the subject of this T makes a prime example of positioning. He positions (as other Sherdoggers have pointed out above) and then pounds the opponent. This is a CONVENTIONAL strategy of Kyo, TMU.... We see the profound effect his strategy has on otherwise sound opponents...

Boxers, IMO put mobility and agility of footwork over traditional karate's positioning from stances. Both work: Traditional karate seeks to fire technique from a planted base (for the most part) calling upon the entire body's strength from tension. Boxing also generates power; depends more on application of body weight, mass, momentum, rotation, maximum use of body mechanics.

SUMMARY:

1. APPROPRIATE PRACTICE OF LIGHT CONTACT. Under traditional karate principles, light-contact does not mean light power. The light contact comes about from the control of strength, so that the opponent does not receive the power actually projected into the strike.

2. KARATE/KEMPO STANCE LIMITED MOBILITY. The limited mobility of the karate use of stances is based on the importance of positioning over gross movement. You position and respond versus trying to move all over to outguess and confuse your opponent by such active movement.

As rigid and unbending as some Shotokan kumite stance demos are, there are some very good examples of traditionalists rapidly closing the distance. Closing question: what part of the 3K's traditional karate curriculum helps with the problem you've describe in terms of limited mobility...?

Also, your question about the Kempo power strike needing to be offset by boxing punches to get the set up. Kenpo technique is speed based. So I'm a bit confused why the shift to pure, heavy power strikes within the Kempo style. Traditional karate is more power-strike based. Did you know that once Shotokan gets to 1st degree black-belt, the emphasis shifts from power to power blended with speed?

KarateStylist

 

[Discipulus]

Wow, fantastic example, Sullivan. Dude does use it well!

There's something about Ghita's style that I just don't like. I find his plodding, high-guard thing to be pretty boring. But his kicks are effective as hell, you can't deny that. I don't even understand how he was getting the angle for those inside leg kicks off Kharitonov's jab.

 

[SummerStriker]

If so, would you or could you see training for the convention of light contact does not equate with traditional karate training of putting strength into technique at some intensity, but controlling that strength so the power behind it doesn't harm your opponent?

I understand what you are saying. What I mean between light and hard sparring is how much damage the target receives from the impact. I was never able to set up Kenpo techniques without first hurting the person.

Closing question: what part of the 3K's traditional karate curriculum helps with the problem you've describe in terms of limited mobility...?

Kumite I'd imagine.

 

[shinkyoku]

Here ya go:

This fight shows several examples of how to use the lead leg or inside low kick (leg kicks in general) and you'll see several variations. Ghita uses it to set up combos, mid combo, as a fake to set up rear leg/hands, etc........ Ghita's low kicks are more reminiscent of Kyokushin low kicks than MT, IMO. But to build on TS statements/points, the applicability of the Kyokushin leg kicks translates into K1/MT very well...... Dutch KB, or Dutch MT is heavily rooted in Kyokushin karate.

Ghita trains kickboxing at Kamakura gym, which is a kickboxing+kyokushin gym (and headquarter for the International budokai kyokushin karate organization) run by Gerard Gordeau. So it is safe to say that Ghitas style is very kyokushin influenced, even more so than dutch kickboxing in general.

 

[Azam]

Here ya go:

This fight shows several examples of how to use the lead leg or inside low kick (leg kicks in general) and you'll see several variations. Ghita uses it to set up combos, mid combo, as a fake to set up rear leg/hands, etc........ Ghita's low kicks are more reminiscent of Kyokushin low kicks than MT, IMO. But to build on TS statements/points, the applicability of the Kyokushin leg kicks translates into K1/MT very well...... Dutch KB, or Dutch MT is heavily rooted in Kyokushin karate.

The way Ghita mixes in low kicks with inside low kicks is a very very common tactic in Kyokushin & knockdown karate, like shinkyoku mentioned it's no surprise if he's training with the IBK of Gerard Gordeau that he probably picked that up from Kyokushin karate or was probably taught this way (kyokushin influence).

The actual mixing of inside low kicks & low kicks in Kyokushin was started by Hajime Kazumi, after he changed his approach after the 6th world open weight tournament, it is IMO a simple but intelligent approach to low kicking in general, not only can you mess up someone's ability to check, but you can feint, sweep etc etc. I like the way Ghita uses this tactic but he lacks the technical proficiency and application/execution of Kazumi IMO, he simply just throws them with the intention of causing damage solely. I think though this has more to do with the mastery of the technique itself & the differences in the stance/positioning of each fighter. The video below shows how positioning & stance is crucial to all techniques but even more so for the inside low kick & demonstrates why Kazumi is more technically proficient in my eyes than Ghita in regards to this (also note in the video how Kazumi makes use of stance & positioning when throwing inside low kicks in a way Ghita does not - AND there lies the difference because the key to inside low kicks IMO is positioning & stance);

At 5.12min:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv7RYlYTBT4



My personal style is similar to that of Kazumi's, though I lack his technical brilliance (however I hope to get there one day). I prefer not to throw inside leg kicks with my lead (as well as Kazumi), which Ghita seems to do a lot of, personally I'm of the view that lead inside low kicks tend to be alot weaker & can compromise balance depending on the stance - whenever I want to throw a lead inside low kick, I always position myself in Heiko-dachi (slightly wider) then let one off - I learnt this method from watching Kazumi.

 

[KarateStylist]

1. I understand what you are saying. What I mean between light and hard sparring is how much damage the target receives from the impact. I was never able to set up Kenpo techniques without first hurting the person.

2. Kumite I'd imagine.

On 1., Yours is the CONVENTIONAL ONE OF SHERDOG POSTERS.... IN CONTRAST, Traditional karate is not about damage until the necessity for actual self-defense application. Traditional karate is about the mental discipline to not only create power using the whole body, but the mental discipline to exert absolute control of that power....

The false psuedo-karate convention of striking lightly with no strength so as to cause no to light damage, is a sport mindset. The dwebs, and girl-like tap-pity tap you see so-called karate practitioners doing is NOT A MENTAL DISCIPLINE.... IN Sherdog speak--it's McDojo Karate--which is not karate. At best this is massive ignorance of karate principles....

The instructors @ my dojang began to take note when they saw that I had that control.... Karate Control comes from mental discipline, not regurgitating physical moves--as Matt Thorton complains about karate.... While correct in his complaint, MattThorton has missed the mental discipline boat. the mental discipline that is to be used in the precision of each & every traditional karate move, engaging the coordinated strength of the whole body as need be.

On 2., Again, yours is the conventional understanding among karateka here @ Sherdog. The movement in karate is to be precise & purposeful, never random. The conventional view of the founder of Shotokan, Gichin Funakoshi, was that kata was the pinnacle of traditional karate training.... In practice, however, the 3K's system was developed or emphasized under Shotokan karate and I also feel that this is the best overall way to train most people (interested in karate that is).

Closing on your 1., if your Kempo fighting was not able to close on an opponent without hurting them, I would venture to say you have the athletic strength to create power--- but not requisite mental discipline for the control over that strength....

I know what many are going to say, that boxers learn control, can exercise control. The approach, however, is by developing & honing reactions.... The traditional karate model controls by consciously directing actions.... intended to have a certain, definite effect.

So, HENDO puts his left hand on my head and puts pressure down. What is the mentally-disciplined karate answer? And it's not Machida's rapid backward movement, or angular backward movement or his kickboxing circling away (which are all valid MMA defensive moves, by the way)!

KarateStylist

 

[SummerStriker]

Karate Stylist, good post. I disagree about how hard strikes and karate stances are applied.

 

[KarateStylist]

^^^^

 

[SummerStriker]

^^^^

lol nice.

 

[ssullivan80]

The way Ghita mixes in low kicks with inside low kicks is a very very common tactic in Kyokushin & knockdown karate, like shinkyoku mentioned it's no surprise if he's training with the IBK of Gerard Gordeau that he probably picked that up from Kyokushin karate or was probably taught this way (kyokushin influence).

The actual mixing of inside low kicks & low kicks in Kyokushin was started by Hajime Kazumi, after he changed his approach after the 6th world open weight tournament, it is IMO a simple but intelligent approach to low kicking in general, not only can you mess up someone's ability to check, but you can feint, sweep etc etc. I like the way Ghita uses this tactic but he lacks the technical proficiency and application/execution of Kazumi IMO, he simply just throws them with the intention of causing damage solely. I think though this has more to do with the mastery of the technique itself & the differences in the stance/positioning of each fighter. The video below shows how positioning & stance is crucial to all techniques but even more so for the inside low kick & demonstrates why Kazumi is more technically proficient in my eyes than Ghita in regards to this (also note in the video how Kazumi makes use of stance & positioning when throwing inside low kicks in a way Ghita does not - AND there lies the difference because the key to inside low kicks IMO is positioning & stance);

At 5.12min:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv7RYlYTBT4



My personal style is similar to that of Kazumi's, though I lack his technical brilliance (however I hope to get there one day). I prefer not to throw inside leg kicks with my lead (as well as Kazumi), which Ghita seems to do a lot of, personally I'm of the view that lead inside low kicks tend to be alot weaker & can compromise balance depending on the stance - whenever I want to throw a lead inside low kick, I always position myself in Heiko-dachi (slightly wider) then let one off - I learnt this method from watching Kazumi.

I agree that Ghita is far less technical than is Kazumi, not really comparable other than to show that the Kyokushin style of kicking (low inside leg kick in particular) is not only applicable to Karate competition but translates very well to K1/Kickboxing/MMA/etc......

Nonetheless, thank you for an excellent post and descriptions of the technique. I took quite a bit from it and typically I tend to stay away from the TMA posts and technique explanations........ Your's however was well done and I hope you'll continue to write post's like this.

 

[shinkyoku]

More footsweep than lowkick, but slightly relevant.


Very relevant


(just keeping the tread from being deleted, as apparently inactive threads are deleted after a while now.)

 

[Frode Falch]

KarateStylist got banned? for what?

 

[shinkyoku]

KarateStylist got banned? for what?

for being karatestylist, and acting accordingly.
He finally pissed a moderator off as much as he had everyone else.
So we can actually have meaningful debates on karate again.

 

[Azam]

for being karatestylist, and acting accordingly.
He finally pissed a moderator off as much as he had everyone else.
So we can actually have meaningful debates on karate again.

I just realised memory got banned LOL....man Hotora, karatestylist, memory among many others lol