Injured someone for the first time last night

EndlessCritic

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Had a kimura from half guard. Typically let go of half guard, stuff the arm between his legs, and I try to spin to the back.

I let go of half guard, and he fights me putting his arm between his legs. So I just put his arm behind his back and try to get the kimura from bottom side control.

From bottom side control I simultaneously hear pop pop pop and him say "tap tap tap".


In retrospect I can see how this is a dangerous position. If I was in a dominant position, I would never need to crank a kimura in any way, and can apply it slowly. But since I was in bottom side control, I didn't really have the ability to apply it slow.

Ugh... feel terrible.
 
It happens, he should have tapped instead of trying like he'll not tap while sparring.
 
It happens, he should have tapped instead of trying like he'll not tap while sparring.

This is how I feel. I tap early on Kimura now because your shoulder is getting fucked up before the pain starts from what I can tell.
 
He will never roll again... look what you have done, you terrible person....

Lol, he should have tapped early. Kimuras from bottom side control are no joke. I have been tapped by them a few times (by generally bigger and stronger people), but still. Ego gets the best of you when you think you have the advantage. He should have tapped.
 
Had a kimura from half guard. Typically let go of half guard, stuff the arm between his legs, and I try to spin to the back.

I let go of half guard, and he fights me putting his arm between his legs. So I just put his arm behind his back and try to get the kimura from bottom side control.

From bottom side control I simultaneously hear pop pop pop and him say "tap tap tap".


In retrospect I can see how this is a dangerous position. If I was in a dominant position, I would never need to crank a kimura in any way, and can apply it slowly. But since I was in bottom side control, I didn't really have the ability to apply it slow.

Ugh... feel terrible.

When training, you don't need to crank anything fast. You screwed up man.
 
Sorry- DMwalking has it correct. You admitting you cranked it from the bottom because you didn't have a dominate position.

You could have gone slow, and he would have either tapped or rolled and you get a reversal out of it.

If you can't control the sub, you have no business doing it in practice (rolling). Tournament is different.

While it sucks- learn from it and don't do it again. No practice tap is worth a potential injury to a training partner.
 
Actually if it is the same technique I am thinking off .

You have to use maximum torque in order to get the back take.

You have to swing your legs in order to achieve the momentum and therefore you cannot adjust the pressure to the kimura like when you are in closed guard or top half guard for example.
 
Actually if it is the same technique I am thinking off .

You have to use maximum torque in order to get the back take.

You have to swing your legs in order to achieve the momentum and therefore you cannot adjust the pressure to the kimura like when you are in closed guard or top half guard for example.
Yes, but invariably the arm will be stuffed between the legs when this occurs. I did not have his arm between his legs.

I honestly didn't even feel like i was applying good kimura pressure. I felt like i was just extending my arms rather than how i would normally finish, which is connecting his elbow to my chest.
 
Yes, but invariably the arm will be stuffed between the legs when this occurs. I did not have his arm between his legs.

I honestly didn't even feel like i was applying good kimura pressure. I felt like i was just extending my arms rather than how i would normally finish, which is connecting his elbow to my chest.

Shit happens man. Don't take it too hard. I've hurt people. Hurt a white belt with a knee bar because they didn't know about inverted kneebars so they didn't tap until it was fully extended. And I went sloooooow. But I wanted the tap. On the other hand, a more experienced partner of mine had me in a tight wrist lock that I didn't recognize and I wasn't tapping. A second more and I'm sure it would've snapped. But he let it go. It took me a bit to realize it was a tap.

So on one hand, it's your responsibility to go slow and controlled. On the other hand it's the other guy's responsibility to be mindful of when to tap. But yeah, slow and controlled is a good rule of thumb. Rolling is for learning more than taps.
 
Kimuras are sneaky dangerous. It can be very hard to know when your shoulder is in danger. I typically let them go if there's any doubt about uke's ability to slow the lock down with his defense, or have time to tap more generally. They're up there with heel hooks in terms of causing injuries.
 
This is how I feel. I tap early on Kimura now because your shoulder is getting fucked up before the pain starts from what I can tell.
I think so too. There are so many similarities between kimuras and heel hooks but for some reason kimuras are treated like armbars. I'm shocked how many people I see with their arms behind their back already and they are just letting it happen and not tapping.
 
It happens. I wouldn't take it too hard.

The guy on top should have rolled over. You should have taken it a little slower.

It might be the first time for you, but if you keep training, it won't be the last.
 
Kimuras are sneaky dangerous. It can be very hard to know when your shoulder is in danger. I typically let them go if there's any doubt about uke's ability to slow the lock down with his defense, or have time to tap more generally. They're up there with heel hooks in terms of causing injuries.

My right shoulder is still hurting from a bad kimura after one year.

I think that when your on top it's even more dangerous, you feel like you can get out with pressure but your just going deeper and when you loose your balance it's almost too late.

If I'm on the bottom and I'm defending by grabbing my arm and I feel like my grip is gonna break I sometimes tap before I let go, I'm f*cked anyway so why would I endure such a brutal submission.
 
Everyone is breaking your balls but shit happens.

Kimuras and keylocks from under side control or half guard are less controlled and can come on quickly.

Sometimes I stop guys from taking side control by a keylock reversal before they get the cross face. A while back I did it to a guy who was dropping in-- big guy, 5'9"ish, 260 or so. Strong but not nimble. Most guys flow with the lock, and you put them on their back. Some you can tap from underneath. But you have to throw it on pretty quick. This guy didn't go with it, and his arm was just not as flexible as most guys. Pooped his elbow just that damn quick.

Total accident, but it happens.

You'll learn from this.
 
It can be very hard to know when your shoulder is in danger. I typically let them go if there's any doubt about uke's ability to slow the lock down with his defense, or have time to tap more generally.

Just yesterday I was rolling with a six month white belt. First I had him in a deep belly down armbar. No way he's getting out. He doesn't even know basic defense. But he's not tapping. It feels like I'm about to break his arm. I tell him, dude, you need to tap. He says no, I'm good. I give a bit more pressure and he taps. Same roll, I've got him in a fully locked omoplata. It feels like his shoulder is about to wrench out. I just don't have it in me to crank any further.

Basically at this point I stop the roll and read him the riot act. I point around all the higher belts. Ask him-- do you know why we're all still here? Because we know when to tap. Don't wait until your shit is about to break, especially against someone who can basically just have their way with you.

Your ego is not your amigo.
 
I think so too. There are so many similarities between kimuras and heel hooks but for some reason kimuras are treated like armbars. I'm shocked how many people I see with their arms behind their back already and they are just letting it happen and not tapping.

Agreed I see this a lot to. Whenever I get a Kimura now I always take it slow to give people plenty of time to tap.
 
Shit happens man. Don't take it too hard. I've hurt people. Hurt a white belt with a knee bar because they didn't know about inverted kneebars so they didn't tap until it was fully extended. And I went sloooooow. But I wanted the tap. On the other hand, a more experienced partner of mine had me in a tight wrist lock that I didn't recognize and I wasn't tapping. A second more and I'm sure it would've snapped. But he let it go. It took me a bit to realize it was a tap.

So on one hand, it's your responsibility to go slow and controlled. On the other hand it's the other guy's responsibility to be mindful of when to tap. But yeah, slow and controlled is a good rule of thumb. Rolling is for learning more than taps.

Knee bar a white belt?
 
Just yesterday I was rolling with a six month white belt. First I had him in a deep belly down armbar. No way he's getting out. He doesn't even know basic defense. But he's not tapping. It feels like I'm about to break his arm. I tell him, dude, you need to tap. He says no, I'm good. I give a bit more pressure and he taps. Same roll, I've got him in a fully locked omoplata. It feels like his shoulder is about to wrench out. I just don't have it in me to crank any further.

Basically at this point I stop the roll and read him the riot act. I point around all the higher belts. Ask him-- do you know why we're all still here? Because we know when to tap. Don't wait until your shit is about to break, especially against someone who can basically just have their way with you.

Your ego is not your amigo.

Yeah, I am the same as usual.

Once I know the sub is gone too far and they are too dumb to big tap. I would let it go.

I just tell them that I want them to come back training instead risking injuries.
 
Knee bar a white belt?

I was a white belt at the time as well. LOL. My instructor at the time has a SAMBO background and taught us some sneaky half guard kneebars during a seminar. I figured the guy would feel the pressure and tap. But he tapped a bit late. It was a minor sprain. It wasn't a career ender. I still felt bad though.
 
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