In retrospect PRIDE/JMMA as a whole is very overrated

[TR1]

A lot of the Pride guys benefited from favorable match making. Just look at how the guys from Pride fared on the whole Stateside.

It's almost like they were deep into their careers.

Shockingly enough, UFC stars of the same age/fight length ALSO started losing around a similar time.

Funny how that work.

 

[NoSmilez]

Pride was good but it is obvious they were a little funny with their matchups. Certain guys were notified they were fighting but no specific opponent vs guys who had all the prep time vs guys who were short noticed. There were also some questionable standups in some of their big fights. There are no reasons for a ref and judges to have earpieces for the fight.

 

[SHAZAM]

Pride is still better than modern UFC. But back then? Only thing UFC had over Pride was 170 and thats only cuz Pride didn't have 170. UFC is overrated to this day. Strikeforce had better HWs in its last year or 2. Hell even the Pride DVDs were better. You could actually skip rounds and intros. Cheapass UFC dvds didn't separate the intros from the fights. Hell, even Ortiz admitted Pride was tougher for the same amount of $$(for him since big fish in small pond). Anyone who is not a complete noob will agree with me and say Pride was better in every way than cheapass UFC. And how can UFC be better if it ain't even close to a real fight? Pride's short notice fights also made it way more realistic. No bs game planning. Thats for pussies. Real martial artists should be ready for any style. Pride also didn't have huge weight cutters like cheapass Couture, Ortiz and Cunt Liddell. UFC always was for scrubs. Well, modern NSAC UFC anyway. The only reason UFC is up and running is bc marketing to pussyass noobs who didn't know any better which allowed them to pay more and buy out Pride. This has happened before. Quality products die to shitty products because of marketing. Just like the shitty X Box. That piece of shit should be dead.

 

[babycart]

But the ring, the spectacle, the yellow cards!!

It is funny how people who loved Pride so much hate on the UFC for becoming too WWE and about entertainment instead of sport.

"That pissed me off, as a fan that bought those fights and then found out I was buying wrassling" - Chael P

The thing about pride is that it delivered an entertainment which is not mostly covered by the UFC: the drive to finish. Japanese audiences love the flurry and the struggle, and their rules reflected that. UFC delivers something else, by which victory can be assured without the drive to finish.

PRIDE's carnival's supported that end while UFC's wrasslin antics backfired cuz not all fighters can be WWE clowns. You want cold-blooded finishes, look at Cro Cop's staredown. PRIDE has 'face' and 'heel' type fighters that can carry out their character well cuz it doesn't deviate from their habit, not so with the UFC aka 'Clash of the Heels.' You want to be the silent type? Sure, PRIDE media ain't gonna hassle you too much for it back then.

Only when TUF came around made all these fighters into 'big brother contestants' did the UFC start to siphon talents away and grab the attention of fight fans. Sadly, today that effect isn't much anymore and now we're stuck with more WWE 'heel' antics and internet guerilla postings.

 

[Saku'sEar]

Only trolls, shills & zombie-fied muricans will ever believe, UFC had or has anything superior to PRIDE FC.
Dana & Chuck wanted in for the biggest shows of their life, but the Japanese didn't send someone over to the UFC.
Now why is that...

 

[MikalP]

"in retrospect" you will be able to say the exact same shit about the UFC 20 years down the road.

CM punk, Brock Lesnar, James Toney? USADA fuckery, Conor's WWE antics, etc.

Stop being that guy.

 

[JKS]

I feel like most new fans get the sentiment that is expressed in the title.
Romanticism aside, Pride, DEEP, Dream etc were always second tier organizations when compared to the UFC.

But older fans seem, to me at least, to still attempt to combat this fact with poor arguments and revisionist history.
Much of PRIDE’s appeal relied on the flash, the pro-wrestling esque pop and circumstance that made every PRIDE event seem grander and more important than it probably was.

I think the other thing that makes older fans see PRIDE as a special organization were the tournaments, and that I can’t deny. But compared to the UFC PRIDE has always been a top heavy (and I mean that both in divisions, and in terms of teh divisions themselves) organization with a handful of elite guys and a bunch of cans.

Could you imagine in the UFC an elite HW fighting a guy in a Lucha libre mask? Look closer and you’ll see even era for era looking at the ENTIRE roster of both orgs the UFC has always had superior talent.

So when you’re looking historically at these two organizations and you’re thinking about MMA in the 2000s, just keep it in mind that the best MMA has always been competed in the USA.

It depends on what time you look at it. During the time of 2003 to 2007 Pride did in fact have the better talent and better fighters in the HW, LHW divisions, MW was pretty even between Pride and UFC. What you speak of with a few elite guys and the rest lower tier fighter is true and I agree but that was before 2003/2004 and around 97 to 2002. Once Pride signed and developed their fighters they had the better guys, not overwhelming but they did and as the time went on 2004, 05 and 06 it went more in their favor. You gotta keep in mind Pride started in 1997 while the UFC in 1993 so it took time for Pride to get top talent and that didn't start happening till 2001/2002 when the organizations started getting more structure and adding divisions. And that point the UFC was already in operation for a nearly a decade. But even in 2002 to 2005 the UFC had a few top guys and not much depth of top talent. at HW, LHW and MW. UFC always had a strong WW division. They both had similar depth but Pride just had more elite guys.

Compare LHW in 2005. Wanderlei, Shogun, Rogerio, Rampage, Arona, Overeem, Henderson, Igor, Vitor. And then they had Same goes HW, MW not so much as that division wasn't as strong and even with the UFC.

If you're gonna make the comparison you gotta look at it from 2003/2004 to 2007 Pride as that is when they were at their peak and so was the UFC.

 

[savemgs]

PRIDE's HWs were better than the UFC by a bit.

I think if the UFCs HW roster vs PRIDE's HW roster at 2002-2004 the top guys would be trading defeats on each side and no one would be unscathed.

Josh Barnett ufc or pride guy?

 

[Mike K.O]

No

PRIDE perfectly lives up to its legend, UFC to me always feels third rate compared to PRIDE.





How can you watch that and not shit your pants?

Those openings.....

 

[TheIrishPsycho]

Those openings.....

Imagine being one of the fighters?

All rioded up, stoned out of your mind and some fat guy in a dipper is beating drums in a stadium full of 60,000 people who have come to quietly observe a blood bath.

Getting hard just thinking about it.

 

[Mike K.O]

Imagine being one of the fighters?

All rioded up, stoned out of your mind and some fat guy in a dipper is beating drums in a stadium full of 60,000 people who have come to quietly observe a blood bath.

Getting hard just thinking about it.

Makes you wanna die in the battle

 

[Barge]

Pridewasbetter

 

[xelad1]

A lot of the Pride guys benefited from favorable match making. Just look at how the guys from Pride fared on the whole Stateside.

Shogun - ended up winning the UFC championship.
Rampage - beat up Chuck while in Pride and then again when he came to the UFC.
Fedor - beat 2 former UFC champions, lost to Werdum (who started his career in Pride and would go on to be UFC HW champ)
Big Nog - won interim UFC Heavyweight championship (also beat up Randy pretty bad who was the top UFC HW contemporary during his prime)

Also, there is the question of who we get to count as "Pride guys going stateside". I mean technically Anderson Silva is a former "Pride guy who went stateside" and so was Werdum. We can also count Dan Henderson, who despite never regaining his former glory in the UFC had some good performances against top competition and captured the Strikeforce LHW title.

Either way, I think the whole 'Pride guys did bad stateside' is largely overblown, probably due to Cro Cop's destruction during what many considered his prime years. By all accounts, the Pride era guys did quite well if you look objectively at their accomplishments (eg despite Shogun losing to Forrest he still recaptured the title from someone who looked 'unsolvable' in Lyoto... who was also a perennial top LHW and MW).

 

[boingyman]

Not to fans like this

 

[Pressure Project]

UFC invented lay n pray fighting. Couldn’t get away with that crap in Pride.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

No.
I'm not.

Make an actual argument as to why as a whole PRIDE was better outside of the spectacle.

Japanophiles always act like it's some absurdity to suggest that the UFC might have been the better organization during PRIDEs hayday

I don't owe you an argument lol. I was called in here, I didn't come bc I was curious or cared. When I see your threads I avoid them. I didn't even read the OP. Saw it who the TS was and thought, "Known troll, forget this shit."

 

[Threetrees]

I don't owe you an argument lol. I was called in here, I didn't come bc I was curious or cared. When I see your threads I avoid them. I didn't even read the OP. Saw it who the TS was and thought, "Known troll, forget this shit."

No one is contending you owe me anything.
Every topic you disagree with isnt a troll thread. Grow up.

 

[Towerworld]

No

PRIDE perfectly lives up to its legend, UFC to me always feels third rate compared to PRIDE.





How can you watch that and not shit your pants?

Awesome in a WWE sense but like TS says, Pride was lacking in terms of fighter talent. Most “greats” from Pride were either rejected by or had shortlived careers in the superior UFC.

Take Big Nog and Crocop for example,amazing without drug testing against nameless cans but rather mediocre against good competition.

 

[MileHigher]

Nobody is capable of having an objective, honest discussion on this topic. It’s like a bunch of 12 year olds arguing about their favorite superheroes and who would kick who’s ass.

Only in MMA do you see this childish nonsense. I love the sport, but this kind of shit is embarrassing.

 

[ortizgnp]

When I see your threads I avoid them. I didn't even read the OP. Saw it who the TS was and thought, "Known troll, forget this shit."