In retrospect PRIDE/JMMA as a whole is very overrated

[cmw43]

I feel like this actually supports the claim that PRIDE is overrated. People would have you that there is no argument for the UFC being better even back then. Taking a look at your own source excluding HW the divisions are all close and comparable

UFC didn't even bring back the LW division until 2006....

 

[IMPmmath]

PRIDE had better fighters for the most part.I watched both orgs all the way through.

 

[Threetrees]

UFC didn't even bring back the LW division until 2006....

Wat
We are talking about the divisions they had in common

 

[bigconan]

I feel like most new fans get the sentiment that is expressed in the title.
Romanticism aside, Pride, DEEP, Dream etc were always second tier organizations when compared to the UFC.

But older fans seem, to me at least, to still attempt to combat this fact with poor arguments and revisionist history.
Much of PRIDE’s appeal relied on the flash, the pro-wrestling esque pop and circumstance that made every PRIDE event seem grander and more important than it probably was.

I think the other thing that makes older fans see PRIDE as a special organization were the tournaments, and that I can’t deny. But compared to the UFC PRIDE has always been a top heavy (and I mean that both in divisions, and in terms of teh divisions themselves) organization with a handful of elite guys and a bunch of cans.

Could you imagine in the UFC an elite HW fighting a guy in a Lucha libre mask? Look closer and you’ll see even era for era looking at the ENTIRE roster of both orgs the UFC has always had superior talent.

So when you’re looking historically at these two organizations and you’re thinking about MMA in the 2000s, just keep it in mind that the best MMA has always been competed in the USA.

when fedor was champion in pride. they also had cro cop, randleman, coleman, big nog...while the ufc had big tim...haha not exactly equal...

 

[Fight Professor]

PRIDE was better than the UFC at the time. JMMA needs to be treated as a variation of MMA in a different era.

 

[cmw43]

Wat
We are talking about the divisions they had in common

If you want to argue that LHW is comparable then I could argue MW is comparable also.

I'd give the edge to Pride in LHW with 6 of the top 10 and UFC the MW edge despite Pride having the no1 guy.

HW clearly Pride was better and WW clearly UFC.

LW clearly Pride as UFC didn't have the division back then.

You started your thread saying Pride was clearly overrated and UFC was superior but now you're saying you think they might be equal?

 

[FKA]

You know what else that has been spoken about for years?

How shady PRIDE was.

You mean yakuza??

Zuffa era UFC was run by the mafia lorenzo and his bro have ties to the mafia so ......

What was that nonsense you were talking about lol?

 

[Blayt7hh]

I feel like this actually supports the claim that PRIDE is overrated. People would have you that there is no argument for the UFC being better even back then. Taking a look at your own source excluding HW the divisions are all close and comparable

I don’t know how you came to that conclusion from his post. He’s completely right. Pride has some clearly better weight classes and the ufc has a few. If you’re still saying UFC had a better roster at the time, then it’s because you’re just entrenched in your opinion

UFC was pretty clearly the second rate promotion in terms of talent and production quality until the TUF era. After TUF they really turned it around and became competitive with Pride.

 

[FKA]

Most of Pride's stars were made from crushing cans. It's easy for fighters to look exciting when they are fighting guys with no business being in the ring with them. Also, corner-stalling was 10x worse than wall-stalling, because it was nearly impossible to escape the corner. Made for some of the most boring fights ever. People only remember the good fights.

Yeah cuz UFC caliber actually means something right ???

lmfao that's hilarious

 

[Threetrees]

If you want to argue that LHW is comparable then you argue MW is comparable also. I'd give the edge to Pride in LHW with 6 of the top 10 and UFC the MW edge despite Pride having the no1 guy.

HW is clearly Pride and WW clearly UFC.

LW clearly Pride as UFC didn't have the division back then.

You started your thread saying Pride was clearly overrated and UFC was superior but now you're saying you think they might be equal?

I stick with my contention that PRIDE is overrated and the UFC is superior.
I was trying to meet you in the middle because you made a good point. Dont be so combative.

 

[cade187]

Pride guys fought with a lot more frequency, you're gonna crush some cans and looking good doing it is how you made stars.

Crocop was fighting 9 times a year at some points.

I think the top fighters in MMA today should be fighting much more frequently, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad way to build stars (crushing cans). It works for boxing, but I think it leads to fighters' greatness being exaggerated.

 

[beastman]

Most of Pride's stars were made from crushing cans. It's easy for fighters to look exciting when they are fighting guys with no business being in the ring with them. Also, corner-stalling was 10x worse than wall-stalling, because it was nearly impossible to escape the corner. Made for some of the most boring fights ever. People only remember the good fights.

Almost all stars are made from crushing cans. Thing about Pride was they'd give a fighter an easy fight randomly if they thought it could sell.

Both orgs have had plenty of boring fights and stalls. Thing about Pride's yellow cards that most people forget was that they were never uniformly applied. One fight they'd be quick on the yellow, others they'd never come out.

 

[cmw43]

I think the top fighters in MMA today should be fighting much more frequently, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad way to build stars (crushing cans). It works for boxing, but I think it leads to fighters' greatness being exaggerated.

Yeah if you see guys murking cans in one round people to start to think they're godly, it's around here whenever anyone has a spectacular KO they're the second coming.

 

[Big Dawg]

Pride is no longer so it really doesn’t matter. I enjoy both. I preferred Pride rules more though. Bring back soccer kicks!!!!!

 

[RogerB08]

A lot of the Pride guys benefited from favorable match making. Just look at how the guys from Pride fared on the whole Stateside.

 

[Philtard]

Over rated as what though? As some of the best events and show production, In giant arenas that are now only recreated in boxing, at a time when the UFC was hot garbage?

Not really.

In terms of not acknowledging the previous history of the sport and comparing the level of today's athlete to then?

Sure, you can be stupid.

 

[Kinniku]

#2 UFC HW Lewis would've never been successful in Pride.

 

[cmw43]

I stick with my contention that PRIDE is overrated and the UFC is superior.
I was trying to meet you in the middle because you made a good point. Dont be so combative.

I'm just saying you're OP doesn't give any empirical reasons for why the UFC was better, just your opinion on the mismatches and you not liking the sheer spectacle Pride provided.

If you actually delve into it and compare the top guys in each weightclass I don't see it as any kind of clear cut victory for the UFC at all.

 

[cmw43]

A lot of the Pride guys benefited from favorable match making. Just look at how the guys from Pride fared on the whole Stateside.

A lot of the Pride guys racked up a lot of injuries during a boat load of fights and were the wrong side of 30 when coming over. Shogun and Crocop got wrecked with knee surgeries, Big Nogs spine got rearranged in the Sapp fight etc

They still managed to scoop up some titles though Shogun LHW title, Big Nog interim HW title, Rampage LHW title.

 

[Oscaraps]

I feel like most new fans get the sentiment that is expressed in the title.
Romanticism aside, Pride, DEEP, Dream etc were always second tier organizations when compared to the UFC.

But older fans seem, to me at least, to still attempt to combat this fact with poor arguments and revisionist history.
Much of PRIDE’s appeal relied on the flash, the pro-wrestling esque pop and circumstance that made every PRIDE event seem grander and more important than it probably was.

I think the other thing that makes older fans see PRIDE as a special organization were the tournaments, and that I can’t deny. But compared to the UFC PRIDE has always been a top heavy (and I mean that both in divisions, and in terms of teh divisions themselves) organization with a handful of elite guys and a bunch of cans.

Could you imagine in the UFC an elite HW fighting a guy in a Lucha libre mask? Look closer and you’ll see even era for era looking at the ENTIRE roster of both orgs the UFC has always had superior talent.

So when you’re looking historically at these two organizations and you’re thinking about MMA in the 2000s, just keep it in mind that the best MMA has always been competed in the USA.

If you didn’t watch it at the time,You would never understand. Pride was the golden age of mma and everything mma stood for