I'm not sure GSP should really get credit as a 2 division champion

This should be obvious. The belt has to have meaning through merit. Since GSP & Conor (and Bisping) didn't defend against top guys, or anyone, it's an OTN award with no lasting effect.
 
XThe GreatestX said:
Sometimes brotha you just can't argue with basic facts.

I agree with you for the most part actually....but he is a two division champ.
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Calling GSP a two division champ without a HUGE asterisk and explanation of context is disrespectful to the fighters who legitimately attained the accomplishment.
 
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Rouseys Pillow said:
The "belts" and "divisional champions" in UFC during the WME-IMG era is all fucked up

Now that they have this huge debt they are trying to recoup, they are willing to bend some rules for the sake of money

This is a detriment to finding out who is really the best fighter of our times

They are willing to let their champions go off and pick their own fights (i.e. Bisping v. Henderson, etc) and allow the belts go unchallenged by top contenders for months/years at a time (i.e. McGregor)

They know that the casuals won't ever consider the prevailing circumstances behind the "accolades", which hardcore MMA fans know to be true. The road to some championships are much easier than others have had to endure.

I was a fan GSP but the current bullshit he pulled has soured me on him. I don't recognize him as ever being a legitimate holder of the MW belt, for many good reasons others have already stated.
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I think this is my real problem with the whole situation. Calling GSP a two-division champ seems like a complete con on the casual audience.
 
rjmbrd said:
This is mental gymnastics.

We look at your body of work over a suitable period of time, and rank you by how many of your peers you can beat.

Georges could beat all of his peers, and generally did, when he lost to Serra.

Serra had a low-likelihood outcome he couldn't repate, and was most certainly not capable of beating most of his peers.

Winning one big race doesn't make you the best runner. Consistently winning big races makes you the best.

Bisping was never the best at any point in time, I can't even come up with a scenario where he was ever top 3.
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Sure, taken overall GSP was much better. However, there's a reason athletes and coaches will say their opponent was simply better than them on a given day - it's simply the truth. Nowhere does that imply that those athletes and coaches think their opponent will have an advantage in a future game, or in the past. But its pretty much a given that in sport, if you lose, your opponent was better.

Its what the undefeated Pats said when they lost the Superbowl to the Giants - on that day the Giants were better. Overall the Pats were much better. Even the Giants agreed with that. But not on that day. This isn't just mental gymnastics, its an essential aspect of sport. In sport, 'better or worse' on a given day is decided on the field (or ice or cage etc), not on paper.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Sure, taken overall GSP was much better. However, there's a reason athletes and coaches will say their opponent was simply better than them on a given day - it's simply the truth. Nowhere does that imply that those athletes and coaches think their opponent will have an advantage in a future game, or in the past. But its pretty much a given that in sport, if you lose, your opponent was better.

Its what the undefeated Pats said when they lost the Superbowl to the Giants - on that day the Giants were better. Overall the Pats were much better. Even the Giants agreed with that. But not on that day. This isn't just mental gymnastics, its an essential aspect of sport. In sport, 'better or worse' on a given day is decided on the field (or ice or cage etc), not on paper.
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It's just a pleasant platitude.

There is no version of Matt Serra, on balance, that was ever a better MMA fighter then Georges.

In many team sports like basketball and baseball we have a series to determine who the best is, so an outlier outcome doesn't conclude the playoff or championship.

You can think of MMA in the same respect, take any period of Georges and Matt's career in a 10 fight span, and we can conclusively say Georges was the better fighter.
 
Franklyn loss to Anderson Silva
Anderson Silva loss to Chris Weidman
Chris Weidman loss to Luke Rockhold
Luke Rockhold loss to Michael Bisping
Michael Bisping loss to GSP
 
He's the cheapest 2 weight champion since he sniped the weakest champion since Dave Menne and slithered away. It's not that impressive really but gotta pad that resume so you can all talk about GOAT's and shit.
 
rjmbrd said:
It's just a pleasant platitude.

There is no version of Matt Serra, on balance, that was ever a better MMA fighter then Georges.

In many team sports like basketball and baseball we have a series to determine who the best is, so an outlier outcome doesn't conclude the playoff or championship.

You can think of MMA in the same respect, take any period of Georges and Matt's career in a 10 fight span, and we can conclusively say Georges was the better fighter.
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The April 19, 2008 version of Serra was better than the April 19, 2008 version of GSP. Its no different than saying the August 5th, 2017 version of Justin Gatlin was faster than the August 5th, 2017 version of Usain Bolt - it was determined in competition who was better/faster on those given days.

Those were probably the only two instances of Serra being better than GSP, or Gatlin being faster than Bolt in their careers, but the results speak for themselves - by definition the better man on the given day won.

Its not just a platitude, as pro players in just about any sport will tell you. The reason they have a best of seven series, or even a regular series, is to see who is consistently better. Who is better on a given day is determined by who wins. In sport that's the definition of better.
 
Masculine Dreams. Does that mean you dream about men or dream about being one?
 
He gets credit. He is the middle weight version of Trent Dilfer.
 
giusti825 said:
Calling GSP a two division champ without a HUGE asterisk and explanation of context is disrespectful to the fighters who legitimately attained the accomplishment.
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Who? BJ? He beat the champ than vacated...

Conor? He beat a weak champ and hasn't defended since.

Randy is the only one to do it than stay and defend
 
giusti825 said:
Okay, ill use the situation that actually happened. If a fighter gets an undeserved title shot due to last minute replacement and wins, then goes 17 months without a legitimate title defense, he is no longer the legitimate champion. Especially if there is another champion in the division who is actually fighting and beating the top contenders. Bisping belt became toilet paper when he decided to fight a 46 year old unranked MW and a retired WW while Whitaker beat the #2 and #1 contender to earn his belt.

Whitakers belt was an actual championship belt. Bispings belt hadnt been defended against a top MW since 2015.....it was garbage......the more legitimate champion is the real one.

Look at ranking sites besides sherdog sometimes. GSP was ranked 8 or 9 at MW for being the 'champion' while the real champion is properly ranked #1. Thats how illegitimate the MW title became.....

How illegitimate does a title have to become to rank the champion outside the top 5.....its ridiculous.....
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In a perfect world but the world ain't perfect.

Look at boxing a lot of the time and trying to get combatants to actually step in a ring rather that posturing and jawboning each other for years.
 
People can think what they want I guess.

Whittaker Romero was the real title fight though and probably the two highest skill fighters we've ever seen In a MW title fight ever.

Bisping was a good win and GSP may have technically gotten the title, he was never the true champion. There Is a reason why Bisping dropped the title in the ring after the Whittaker fight. That seemed to symbolize that he knew, that was the real championship fight and Whittaker was the real champion.

Nothing against GSP though, he saw an opportunity, he took It and he made the most of It. He's a smart man and that win definitely wasn't a bad thing for his legacy.
 
Same situation as Conor really. Never lost his belt at his original weight class. Had one fight in next division up against the champ and won then disappeared.
 
MescalineDreams said:
Nothing against him, but he beat a past prime bisping. Who wasn't even a top 5 fighter. On some level we have to take off the rose coloured glasses and see that win for what It was.

It was a good win and a good performance having been off for 4 years but It certainly shouldn't have been a championship fight.

We all know Bisping was the equivalent of Matt serra when It comes to credibility as a champion.

That said, no hate on him for not staying at middleweight. No reason for him to fight the killers of that divisionn at this stage of his career,
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Come on asshole, you're getter than this. This is white belt troll level. You're a black belt and should feel ashamed of yourself. 0/10.
1518482451137.jpg
 
Bisping knocked Rockhold out, beat Anderson, and beat Henderson. Yes, there were better contenders, but Rockhold was the legitimate champ.

He is was a legitimate champion.
 
JayJayFrench said:
Come on asshole, you're getter than this. This is white belt troll level. You're a black belt and should feel ashamed of yourself. 0/10.
View attachment 340177
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you're 16 years old, annoying as hell and spam shitty memes In every thread, you're probably fat and you've never set foot In a gym In your life.

you should try working out for once In your life before talking shit
 
MescalineDreams said:
you're 16 years old, annoying as hell and spam shitty memes In every thread, you're probably fat and you've never set foot In a gym In your life.

you should try working out for once In your life before talking shit
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Hurr durr! Look at me! I made a troll thread cause I'm an unoriginal fucktard! Hurr durr! I even made my name have drugs in it to look cool on the internet! Hurr durr! Let me pretend I don't acknowledge GSP as a 2 division champion! Hurr durr! Fuck I'm edgey.

You're lame, boy.
1518577179885.jpg
 
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