I'm 224 right now, i plan to go down to 185, will i be faster?

James Edwart

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I'm 5'9 and i'm pretty decent at boxing, mainly due to my chin and power. One thing i lack though, due to my frame, is movement and hand speed, will i be faster if i lose this weight? Also, will i lose my power?
 
man, estimate your muscle mass , will it decrease when you drop weight?
 
If your speed doesn't improve, your technique is terrible
 
I'm 5'9 and i'm pretty decent at boxing, mainly due to my chin and power. One thing i lack though, due to my frame, is movement and hand speed, will i be faster if i lose this weight? Also, will i lose my power?

faster, probably less powerful, but because you may train more and get better form your power could actually improve. Heavier boxers have more power usually though.
 
I'm 5'9 and i'm pretty decent at boxing, mainly due to my chin and power. One thing i lack though, due to my frame, is movement and hand speed, will i be faster if i lose this weight? Also, will i lose my power?

The better question is what about your "frame" or build is limiting your movement or hand speed? Depending on how and where you are carrying that extra weight, the only answer that is reasonable given your question is IT DEPENDS......
 
If your speed doesn't improve, your technique is terrible

Generally speaking, that maybe true in many instances. However, boxing has weight classes and a guy who's used to being the faster fighter at a higher weight class, after dropping down in weight may very well end up being the slower fighter in lighter weight classes (even if he's generally faster). IMO, given the TS is currently at HW and is talking about being closer to LHW...... there's a pretty significant jump in punch output between HW and LHW (even between HW and cruiserweight).
 
no,you will be slower. The lesser mass less speed. Higher power also.
 
Generally speaking, that maybe true in many instances. However, boxing has weight classes and a guy who's used to being the faster fighter at a higher weight class, after dropping down in weight may very well end up being the slower fighter in lighter weight classes (even if he's generally faster). IMO, given the TS is currently at HW and is talking about being closer to LHW...... there's a pretty significant jump in punch output between HW and LHW (even between HW and cruiserweight).

Maybe in relation to other people in a lower weight class (especially the legs).

But in relation to himself, less mass is going to be easier to move quicker than before if technique is used (legs and all).

You don't see a lot of limber fat people (or heavily muscled people either usu.)

There's also a size difference with dropping down. Your relative skeleton size will equate to faster speed (relative to them) just by virtue of being scaled up and having longer reach.

So in any way speed would be measured, it's extremely likely to to go up in every practical way.
 
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You really don't want to be a 5'9 heavyweight. I would recommend dropping weight.
 
Try getting down to 200 and let us know how you feel first.
 
I agree with @ssullivan80

I think it depends. He's saying that he lacks hand speed and movement at this size but, in combat sports, it's always relative. If he lacks speed and movement at 224 then at 185, he might be faster relative to his heavier self but not necessarily faster relative to his weight. So he might not be any better off.

Plus depending on what weight he drops, he might not be faster relative to his heavier self (but I think this is unlikely). If he's carrying a lot of fat then he should get faster. But if he drops muscle, especially in the legs, then he might not see the gains he's hoping for. But odds are he gets faster.
 
I agree with @ssullivan80

I think it depends. He's saying that he lacks hand speed and movement at this size but, in combat sports, it's always relative. If he lacks speed and movement at 224 then at 185, he might be faster relative to his heavier self but not necessarily faster relative to his weight. So he might not be any better off.

Plus depending on what weight he drops, he might not be faster relative to his heavier self (but I think this is unlikely). If he's carrying a lot of fat then he should get faster. But if he drops muscle, especially in the legs, then he might not see the gains he's hoping for. But odds are he gets faster.

Hold on a second.

You two guys are saying you are seriously saying that @ 5'9", he's going from 224 to 185 in order to switch weight competitive classes? Did I get that right? You both assume, given the context of this thread, that that's what's going on here?

There's basically no chance of that being the case; it's just a guy that needs to lose weight. And if it were somehow the case, it would be a lot tougher hanging out at unlimited weight class as a 5'9" framed slow guy (regardless of speed/power) than at 185. Am I high or are you guys both half asleep
 
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Getting rid of fat will make you faster. Are you that muscular? There is also a thing where a short, stocky guy is never going to be a great out fighter anyways. You have to dominate in fighting anyways, if you want to win. A short, stocky guy is going to have to have great footwork also. It is not the dancing footwork, but good linear footwork and getting angles. Most people don't appreciate good pressure fighter's skills anyways.
 
Hold on a second.

You two guys are saying you are seriously saying that @ 5'9", he's going from 224 to 185 in order to switch weight competitive classes? Did I get that right? You both assume, given the context of this thread, that that's what's going on here?

There's basically no chance of that being the case; it's just a guy that needs to lose weight. And if it were somehow the case, it would be a lot tougher hanging out at unlimited weight class as a 5'9" framed slow guy (regardless of speed/power) than at 185. Am I high or are you guys both half asleep

READ THE "CONTEXT" OF THE THREAD BRO!

We're not SAYING anything that requires making an assumption (your assuming he's a fluffy 224)........ Hence, the response IT DEPENDS. The TS stated his size and weight and referred to "his frame" as being what he felt inhibited his speed. Depending on how one defines "frame", your frame doesn't change drastically by losing weight but your build probably does. Depending on how you carry that weight on your frame the difference it makes in speed and power can vary accordingly. If he's built like a Mike T or a David Tua (both under 6ft and around the weight he specified) vs Butterbean, then the loss of weight and the corresponding effect it has on his athletic performance are going to be significantly different. In short, he's talking about reducing his overall weight by almost 20%. If that's 19% body fat and 1% lean muscle mass then the results on his speed and power are going to be drastically different than if it were vice-versa.

I do however agree that at 5ft 9in, being in the HW weight class is going to pose more challenges physically due to height/reach than would LHW or below. Either way, 5ft 9 is relatively short in almost any weight class north of 154 and the difference in fighters speed, output and pace is significantly (generally) different at the lower end of that scale than at HW.
 
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Hold on a second.

You two guys are saying you are seriously saying that @ 5'9", he's going from 224 to 185 in order to switch weight competitive classes? Did I get that right? You both assume, given the context of this thread, that that's what's going on here?

There's basically no chance of that being the case; it's just a guy that needs to lose weight. And if it were somehow the case, it would be a lot tougher hanging out at unlimited weight class as a 5'9" framed slow guy (regardless of speed/power) than at 185. Am I high or are you guys both half asleep

No, even if he's not switching weight classes because he's not competing, there's no guarantee that dropping weight makes him faster in terms of hand speed or movement. It depends on what type of weight he drops. But if he is competing, dropping weight would drop his weight class and, in that specific, situation, getting faster relative to his old self might not equate to being competitively faster.

So, I think he and I are talking about both possibilities and, in either possibility, you can't just guarantee that dropping weight means he gets faster. He probably does but he didn't say anything about how his 224 is being carried. Is he 224 of mostly muscle with some fat? 224 of mostly fat with some muscle. Is he strong in the legs and chubby up top or is weak in the legs and chubby up top. There's too many things we don't know.
 
Anyone who's able to drop from 224 to 185 is not talking about considering dropping 39 lbs of muscle. Not even 20 lbs. Just no.
When you go down in weight to fight either competitively or non, it's clear to me that that means losing as much fat as possible while retaining as much muscle as possible. Nobody needed to debate that prior to this thread, it was always rightly assumed, and there's no need to consider that it meant anything else, unless stated directly (which would be weird as hell).

I'm not guaranteeing that becoming more lean will make him quicker (as you can see from my first post), but I am guaranteeing that it will make it easier to be quicker.

Assuming he's not going to be using some kind of wasting disease or twisted organ removal surgery, at the end of losing weight in any semi-normal manner there's just less mass to move around, and you don't need hardly any muscle at all to move fast or hit hard. If you're using muscle to strike you're doing it wrong. All the fastest guys are not that muscular or fat, and that's no coincidence. The p4p hardest and fastest hitters are lean guys. No fighter gets slower from getting lean-- this is not even up for debate.

I get the weight class thing in theory, but not in reality. It's 'interesting' but not applicable. Striking is about being practical, so I try to answer in practical terms. It's hard enough to understand responses and instructions that are plain and to the point. I have no idea why anyone would choose to stress and emphasize the unlikeliest of theoretical scenarios when giving advice, but oh well.
 
I get the weight class thing in theory, but not in reality. It's 'interesting' but not applicable. Striking is about being practical, so I try to answer in practical terms. It's hard enough to understand responses and instructions that are plain and to the point. I have no idea why anyone would choose to stress and emphasize the unlikeliest of theoretical scenarios when giving advice, but oh well.

In reality and in all practicality, weight classes exist for a reason!
Going up or down in weight absolutely does make a difference. The fundamentals of striking may remain constant but the "practicality" of how those fundamentals translate into the fight certainly are influenced by weight divisions. The whole concept of being able to carry power and speed up or down in weight classes is far from theoretical as there's a long list of fighters who were KO punchers in one weight class that couldn't translate that same power in even the next weight class up (i.e: Adrian Broner). Just as there are fighters who've gone down in weight to find that they couldn't keep up with the speed/pace, or power punchers who found the weight loss limited there effectiveness. There's a good reason why P4P rankings exist and that's not because "in theory" weight classes make a difference.

For example: If the TS says he weighs 224 and has good power but lacks speed.... well, does that mean he has good power against other guys who weigh 224? If so, I doubt he's that "fluffy". But if he's 224 and feels like he's powerful but slow vs guys who weigh 185, totally different story. Hell, I'm not a power puncher at my size (180) but I am quick with enough power to keep my opponent honest. But against a WW i'm a monster puncher....... soon as I can catch that little fucker! and vs a true HW I know i'm typically much faster because I'm a track star in the ring....... Right? The hunter vs the hunted changes according to weight/size.
 
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Anyone who's able to drop from 224 to 185 is not talking about considering dropping 39 lbs of muscle. Not even 20 lbs. Just no.
When you go down in weight to fight either competitively or non, it's clear to me that that means losing as much fat as possible while retaining as much muscle as possible. Nobody needed to debate that prior to this thread, it was always rightly assumed, and there's no need to consider that it meant anything else, unless stated directly (which would be weird as hell).

I'm not guaranteeing that becoming more lean will make him quicker (as you can see from my first post), but I am guaranteeing that it will make it easier to be quicker.

Assuming he's not going to be using some kind of wasting disease or twisted organ removal surgery, at the end of losing weight in any semi-normal manner there's just less mass to move around, and you don't need hardly any muscle at all to move fast or hit hard. If you're using muscle to strike you're doing it wrong. All the fastest guys are not that muscular or fat, and that's no coincidence. The p4p hardest and fastest hitters are lean guys. No fighter gets slower from getting lean-- this is not even up for debate.

I get the weight class thing in theory, but not in reality. It's 'interesting' but not applicable. Striking is about being practical, so I try to answer in practical terms. It's hard enough to understand responses and instructions that are plain and to the point. I have no idea why anyone would choose to stress and emphasize the unlikeliest of theoretical scenarios when giving advice, but oh well.

If you're not guaranteeing that he will be quicker then I don't know what you're disagreeing about. @ssullivan80 said it depends. I said it depends. You're saying it's a strong possible. None of us are guaranteeing that he's going go be faster just because he drops the weight.

And you're assuming that he's a fat or even chubby 224 when he never says that. He could be 224 of heavy muscle. Tyson was 5'10 and around 220. You see that body type in football players and guys who lift seriously. When those guys drop weight, they're often dropping a lot of muscle, not necessarily a lot of fat because they often don't have a ton of fat to drop.

And if they're dropping muscle, they're not necessarily going to faster just because they're lighter. They could stay the same speed. Also, you're wrong about not needing muscle to move fast or hit hard. You need muscle, you don't large muscles but you do need a great percentage of fast twitch muscle and dropping/adding weight isn't going to change that.

It's why the average vertical in the NFL is higher than the average vertical in the NBA even though guys in the NFL are often 20+lbs heavier. Heavier, more muscle, and still capable of pushing that weight higher than lighter athletes. It's just not as cut and dry as lighter means faster, quicker, etc.
 
why are you jumping down an entire flight of stairs in one go..

try out a few different weight classes on the way down.. may be pleasantly surprised and find a happy medium
 
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