If you support the Confederate flag....

[Rational Poster]

If you mean a poor decision on the part of the leaders then yeah but the men showed unbelievable courage.

So following bad orders makes you courageous?

Look at this courage on display!

 

[oldshadow]

So following bad orders makes you courageous?

Look at this courage on display!

They knew that the odds were against them but thought with Lee they would carry the day.

Do you think on D day the outcome was Assured?

No but despite the horrible loss of life the made it. D day could very well have turned into a Pickett's charge.

I thought you studied history enuff to view it from the perspective of the time and not looking back with hindsight.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

...can you tell me why? I can tell you why I don't...

I don't support a flag that was so explicit about promoting the inferiority of the African race, as well as one that millions of slaves died under. Not really a long and complicated point.... and yes, I'm aware I'm late to the party for this debate, I haven't been Sherdogging lately.

...and yes, I'm aware many Northerners held similar views at the time.

Simple question, Sunday morning debate.

PLAYBOY: Wasn't the Civil War fought to decide whether this nation could, in the words of Lincoln, "endure permanently half slave and half free"?


MALCOLM X: Sir, many, many people are completely misinformed about Lincoln and the Negro. That war involved two thieves, the North and the South, fighting over the spoils. The further we get away from the actual incident, the more they are trying to make it sound as though the battle was over the black man. Lincoln said that if he could save the Union without freeing the slaves, he would. But after two years of killing and carnage he found out he would have to free the slaves. He wasn't interested in the slaves but in the Union.

 

[Rational Poster]

They knew that the odds were against them but thought with Lee they would carry the day.

Do you think on D day the outcome was Assured?

No but despite the horrible loss of life the made it. D day could very well have turned into a Pickett's charge.

I thought you studied history enuff to view it from the perspective of the time and not looking back with hindsight.

I actually have been studying the Civil War a lot recently and I'll readily admit that the individual Southern soldier was quite valorous compared to his counterparts in the Union army, but using the ultimate display of incompetence by the Northern Army of Virginia as some sort of defense of the Confederate flag seems silly to me.

At least point to Antietam or Fredericksburg or something.

 

[Rational Poster]

PLAYBOY: Wasn't the Civil War fought to decide whether this nation could, in the words of Lincoln, "endure permanently half slave and half free"?


MALCOLM X: Sir, many, many people are completely misinformed about Lincoln and the Negro. That war involved two thieves, the North and the South, fighting over the spoils. The further we get away from the actual incident, the more they are trying to make it sound as though the battle was over the black man. Lincoln said that if he could save the Union without freeing the slaves, he would. But after two years of killing and carnage he found out he would have to free the slaves. He wasn't interested in the slaves but in the Union.

You are leaving out the other part in which the South was totally in it for the slaves from the start. Not freeing them, but keeping them as property indefinitely.

Everyone was still racist then, Lincoln included.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

You are leaving out the other part in which the South was totally in it for the slaves from the start. Not freeing them, but keeping them as property indefinitely.

Didn't see that part.

 

[Rational Poster]

Didn't see that part.

Oh yeah, Malcom X didn't say it but we all know it was true because of history and junk..

 

[Deleted member 196663]

Oh yeah, Malcom X didn't say it but we all know it was true because of history and junk..

mmkay.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

You're right. My statements were too strong for a naunced topic. I'm just trying to remind people that it isn't like every confederate hated blacks, and it isn't like every northerner wanted to end slavery. There were people on both sides all over. And that while we tend to view the North as basically modern day liberals who completely tolerant and believed in equal rights for blacks, that generally was not the case. You would have been seen as a batshit insane radical to propose the vote for blacks, for example.

I agree with this.

Except for the part about blacks voting, because that was already being proposed at the time of Emancipation Proclamation. It took a little bit longer than the prohibition of slavery, but not by much. Black men got the right to vote within five years of the end of the war, and did vote in large numbers throughout the Reconstruction era, protected by federal troops. During the 1870s Mississippi sent two black senators to Washington.

Of course, as soon as the federal troops returned home, blacks in the South effectively lost the right to vote.

 

[Bloodworth]

I find it the same as supporting the swastika.
It shouldn't be erased from history, but why the hell would you want it anywhere in public view?

What was the swastika used for originally, was it developed by the Germans.
So because an evil culture took it under their wing, the original people can never use it again?

So every country that has commited serious atrocities should change their flag?

 

[Rational Poster]

I don't understand why so many people want to publicly side with the losing team.

It's like they all want to wear Falcons Super Bowl 51 jerseys while sporting Tom Brady tattoos.

 

[dontsnitch]

Meh, it's a bit like saying "Do you support Planned Parenthood?" and in doing so insinuating that you support what the founder of Planned Parent stood for.

Yep, that's her. She essentially wanted to start Planned Parenthood to help eliminate the "inferior" bloodlines she perceived - so, it was viewed as one of many tools to pursue a program of eugenics. Now, how silly would you feel insinuating that someone supporting Planned Parenthood was a racist supporting eugenics directed towards non-whites because of what Margaret Sanger said? I don't even care much for all of the rhetoric around the Confederate flag - you guys lost, get over it - but this type of line of reasoning is a clusterfuck if you don't apply is very specifically, and only to things you want to tear down. If it gets applied freely, many things you think are wonderful make you a racist by association with it.

So kinda like Hillary Clinton can publicly state that she admired Sanger and nobody cares? Intradesting...

 

[trident]

Do you wear cotton? If there is anything that is a sign of southern slavery, it is cotton. I hope you are into 70s fashion.

I come to the war room for the stupid. Thank you for this stupid comment. I can leave now.

 

[Ice That Jaw]

It would be nice if people flew the original flag for a change. It would still signify a remembrence for all the soldiers who fought and died but without the uneeded spectacle thr battle flag brings.

 

[GhostZ06]

...can you tell me why? I can tell you why I don't...

I don't support a flag that was so explicit about promoting the inferiority of the African race, as well as one that millions of slaves died under. Not really a long and complicated point.... and yes, I'm aware I'm late to the party for this debate, I haven't been Sherdogging lately.

...and yes, I'm aware many Northerners held similar views at the time.

Simple question, Sunday morning debate.

repping that naval flag

 

[edirp]

That just makes me embrace the flag even more just to piss you SJWs off.

 

[machidafan99]

I don't own this flag or wear it but I did watch The Dukes of Hazzard as a kid.

I support freedom of expression and just like it's legal for a punk rocker to wear a Swastika I feel the same towards this.

And remember the slave states of the North.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

It would be nice if people flew the original flag for a change. It would still signify a remembrence for all the soldiers who fought and died but without the uneeded spectacle thr battle flag brings.

I would argue that the actual Confederate flag represents racism and that the battle flag is an appropriate symbol of heritage, but whatev's

 

[Makani]

I consider flying it an act of free speech, as I consider it my right to consider the people who fly it likely hillbillies. The South was fighting for slavery, true, but most of the people who died in the grey were most likely just fighting for what they saw as their home. I feel the whole issue is a little overblown, but if people aren't racists in day to day life I don't mind them embracing their heritage. How many atrocities has the Union Jack looked down upon? It's a slippery slope.

 

[Blackened]

I consider flying it an act of free speech, as I consider it my right to consider the people who fly it likely hillbillies. The South was fighting for slavery, true, but most of the people who died in the grey were most likely just fighting for what they saw as their home. I feel the whole issue is a little overblown, but if people aren't racists in day to day life I don't mind them embracing their heritage. How many atrocities has the Union Jack looked down upon? It's a slippery slope.

In America, we have the right to be racist.