If you dont understand how Jon tested positive after multiple false tests:

it looks more like self sabotage than a mistake

Yeah, now he has an excuse to retire early, undefeated. Although the positive test probably ruins his rep more than a loss would, but maybe he just really didn't want to lose, ever.
 
Yeah, now he has an excuse to retire early, undefeated. Although the positive test probably ruins his rep more than a loss would, but maybe he just really didn't want to lose, ever.

I've wanted to say that in this thread but I can't be bothered with all the haters

This is the same dude that used to get black out wrecked on coke and beer just so he could tell himself 'I lost because I got wasted' he's an absolute ego maniac and I wouldn't put anything past him
 
The psychology of all of this with these athletes is a mystery to me. I would never be comfortable giving my blood and my urine knowing full well I am taking steroids or other drugs. And I am just praying and hoping the masking agents or whatever will do their job. I could never handle that kind of stress. It's crazy.

I feel the same way man... we had guys in the Marines who would shit bricks and damned near pass out when their names showed up on the "piss test roster." Life in the Marine Corps was tough enough without having to worry about that kind of crap... we had a group of workout turkeys who were using dick-pills (apparently it's good for blood flow to the whole body, not just the johnson) and all kinds of supplements. Watching them do everything they could to magically "be somewhere else" for the day was comical. haha
 
No one is actually surprised are they? I assume people saying it's a "set-up" are just trolling or your average low IQ conspiracy theory idiot.
 
So we're both on the same page
You don't think the top level athletes keep on track with testing accuracy, and don't have inside knowledge

No, I don't think the athletes keep track with the bulk of the testing changes. Their management/trainers/gym might, but I doubt most fighters have the time, desire, knowledge, etc. to keep track of things themselves.

As for "inside knowledge", no I doubt any UFC fighters have any sort of significant inside knowledge.

Another thing you're missing, changes to tests (and therefore their accuracy), which tests are done on which samples, etc. isn't relayed to the athletes. Changes to the banned/prohibited lists are disseminated to all the fighters, but the details and specifics of every new test isn't.

In Jones case, Dimspace said that the test for turinabol used to only accurately detest usage if done within days of dosing. The new test however can catch usage weeks-months after usage. That change alone could be why Jones popped, but more likely he was always using and just never had his sample tested specifically for turinabol until now.

Lance Armstrong admits he used PEDs for close to a decade before he was definitively caught. There's been tons of Olympic athletes that weren't caught until years later.

And keep in mind:
"Jeff Novitzky, the UFC’s vice president of athlete health and performance, said newly developed drug tests could be performed on samples that have been preserved in connection with the promotion’s out-of-competition drug testing program.

So blood and urine that’s been kept frozen in World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA)-accredited laboratories could be re-tested for new PEDs, which opens the possibility of UFC fighters failing drug tests years after a particular bout."

SOURCE: http://mmajunkie.com/2015/08/jeff-novitzky-ufcs-usada-samples-could-be-retested-years-later


So chances are highly likely that Jones will pop on another test in the near future as USADA goes and retests his old samples.
 
Not only what OP said but it also depends on what they tested for. Not every test will test for same substances. That would be very expensive and impractical.

He may not have even been tested for turnibal the entire time until that one test. Turnibal is still used as an underground PED because it's hard to detect in tests and rarely used.

Sounds like to me they just thought they could get away with it and didn't expect to he tested for it.
 
"I just wanna make you cry again Jon" - USADA
 
No, I don't think the athletes keep track with the bulk of the testing changes. Their management/trainers/gym might, but I doubt most fighters have the time, desire, knowledge, etc. to keep track of things themselves.

As for "inside knowledge", no I doubt any UFC fighters have any sort of significant inside knowledge.

Another thing you're missing, changes to tests (and therefore their accuracy), which tests are done on which samples, etc. isn't relayed to the athletes. Changes to the banned/prohibited lists are disseminated to all the fighters, but the details and specifics of every new test isn't.

In Jones case, Dimspace said that the test for turinabol used to only accurately detest usage if done within days of dosing. The new test however can catch usage weeks-months after usage. That change alone could be why Jones popped, but more likely he was always using and just never had his sample tested specifically for turinabol until now.

Lance Armstrong admits he used PEDs for close to a decade before he was definitively caught. There's been tons of Olympic athletes that weren't caught until years later.

And keep in mind:
"Jeff Novitzky, the UFC’s vice president of athlete health and performance, said newly developed drug tests could be performed on samples that have been preserved in connection with the promotion’s out-of-competition drug testing program.

So blood and urine that’s been kept frozen in World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA)-accredited laboratories could be re-tested for new PEDs, which opens the possibility of UFC fighters failing drug tests years after a particular bout."

SOURCE: http://mmajunkie.com/2015/08/jeff-novitzky-ufcs-usada-samples-could-be-retested-years-later


So chances are highly likely that Jones will pop on another test in the near future as USADA goes and retests his old samples.

Appreciate the effort in that post and you seem very pro USADA

I still think a ton of athletes are getting away with it by being ahead of the system, there are some blatant examples in the UFC alone, but maybe their names aren't 'sexy' enough to bring down, Jones seems to be a big fish on the hook, or easy low hanging fruit
 
No one should be surprised by this anymore, after previous doping scandals.
Imagine how many times olympic athletes and cyclists have been tested, without getting caught.

I can recommend the movie Icaros on Netflix, where a cyclist tries to see if he can beat the system and get away with doping. He is helped by the main man behind the russian doping system.
(Who ends up deciding to leak the entire russian doping program for the Sochi olympics, and has to flee the country to avoid getting murdered by Putin)
Best documentary I've seen in a while.
 
So your telling me a multi millionaire who can afford whatever he wants and whoever he wants
Fucked up a cycle ?

Not buying it sorry brah

So instead you're buying the story of a conspiracy?

Why do people find it so hard to believe a person would get popped for a steroid... simply because it's not the most expensive drug on the market? Honestly.

I'm not interested in fully judging Jones until all the facts are out; but to pretend "Oh that's not designer enough for Jones" is ridiculous. Dude goes to strip clubs, and it's not like he's going to the high-end shit out in New Mexico.
 
You guys are aware Mir passed his training camp test, failed the pre fight test, then failed the training camp test when it was redone because they simply didnt test for tbol metabolites, right?
 
So instead you're buying the story of a conspiracy?

Why do people find it so hard to believe a person would get popped for a steroid... simply because it's not the most expensive drug on the market? Honestly.

I'm not interested in fully judging Jones until all the facts are out; but to pretend "Oh that's not designer enough for Jones" is ridiculous. Dude goes to strip clubs, and it's not like he's going to the high-end shit out in New Mexico.
<DontBelieve1>
 
And then add on fighting, training, your career, relationships, the business end of your fighting career etc.....the stress load is astronomical. This is why so many professional athletes crash and burn.

The only way to do it is on the straight and narrow and to delegate. Be honest, always do the right thing and have a good team of people behind you to take the load off some.

Frankie Edgar style.
 
I remember tons of fighters popping for masking agents though. So you're saying that certain masking agents will show on a test and others won't? If thats true then why would anyone ever get caught for masking agents? I understand your argument, but it seems strange to me that the masking agents wouldn't show up on any of his tests.

So the masking agents mask the steroid for a certain amount of time, lets say 1-2 weeks but the masking agents are only detectable for like 6-12 hours... for example hydrochlorthiazide that cyborg and JDS just tested positive for
 
The psychology of all of this with these athletes is a mystery to me. I would never be comfortable giving my blood and my urine knowing full well I am taking steroids or other drugs. And I am just praying and hoping the masking agents or whatever will do their job. I could never handle that kind of stress. It's crazy.

Don't worry you can take certain drugs to deal with the stress(for which you'll need masking agents too btw).
 
So your telling me a multi millionaire who can afford whatever he wants and whoever he wants
Fucked up a cycle ?

Not buying it sorry brah
That's the thing, you also have to ask you why jones would even bother taking something so cheap and old in the first place. No pharmacy on earth makes Turinabol, when you order that shit there is no guarantee that it will be what you end up getting.
 
Makes perfect sense if you think USADA wasn't testing for masking agents until the post fight test. But they definitely were, so your theory makes no sense.

If he's using masking agents during training, they're not being flagged. So why would he worry they would be flagged post-fight and stop taking them?
 
I can actually understand how it would be difficult to see so I will explain.

Different steroids how up in your blood long after you discontinued taking them. If you read here: https://www.steroid.com/Oral-Turinabol.php

You can see that turinabol stays in your system for 6 weeks of the positive test, which means that Jon took it within the last 6 weeks. So then the question becomes

"why did he have negative tests prior to his positive tests if he has been taking this for 6+weeks???"
The answer is masking agents. These athletes use masking agents to hide turinabol from their system, however these masking agents while having a much shorter duration in your system then the actual steroid, can still be tested for. The two drug tests an athlete KNOWS they are going to take is the pre fight and post fight which means they ABSOLUTELY cannot take the masking agent in proximity to those tests, therefor they can still pop for the anabolic steroid that they took weeks ago... does this make sense to everybody??
T-bol has a short half-life and has become increasingly popular again in this century among athletes, but USADA (WADA) in 2012, implemented new tests that were able to detect previously undetectable metabolites of T-bol and steroids derived from T-bol up to six months after doping.
 
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