Fair point. Yet I'm sure you'd agree that patriotism is really not a thing anymore. Patriotism was what made people feel like they should stand up for what their country believes in. Now people don't want to get their hands dirty. Everyone wants to live in a great. free world that fights tyranny when it rears its ugly head..........well so long as other people handle it.
Fair enough. But patriotism comes from having faith in your leaders. Leaders have to earn that respect. Patriotism is not a given, most people are not that blind.
Its not really just defending our country. Its protecting others, fighting for assets that we need (don't get me started on people who use oil everyday and shit on the US for fighting for oil), eliminating potential future threats to our nation etc. People today do not see the necessity, IMO.
That was you, Seano. You are the one who was 100% against getting our hands dirty in Syria, and it was not even you who would personally have to do it. But you changed your mind when Trump did (after the chemical attack you still were against strikes), which seems disingenuous.
This is where you tell me I really meant something other than what I really meant and this is where I tell you to get bent. Refrain from telling me what I actually said. I said what I meant.
Not trying to put words in your mouth (though I guess I did). I will just say how I feel then, which is that it does not take balls to be a thoughtless cyborg for your government. It takes balls to think critically about situations.
I consider myself patriotic because I have pride in being part of the American people who make this a great country, not because I have pride in my government who seems 97% full of assholes and imbeciles on both sides of the political spectrum.
We are great, in many instances, DESPITE our leaders, not because of them.
See Nac, this is why I find you disingenuous at times in the war room when you claim to be independent. I notice you mention Bush. I notice you mention Kerry. What do they have in common? The GOP. What war did Obama fight in? Clinton?
I can explain why I chose those people.
You called Trump a patriot, while basically calling people unwiling to serve ungrateful, ball-less cowards.
That is why I brought up Trump, because you referred to him as a "patriot." I saw that as a contradiction.
I brought up McCain and Kerry because those are the two guys (one republican, one democrat) that Trump has insulted for their military records. He actually shit on them because they DID serve in the military...imagine that.
I brought up Bush because you said you voted for him. He is another guy who dodged any real service because he was rich. Is he a ball-less coward? I guess not, if he got your vote, but I call that a contradiction.
So I was bringing up things that you are saying that I believe are contradictions. If people who refuse to fight are ball-less cowards, then Trump and Bush (guys you voted for) are ball-less cowards. You did not vote for Clinton or Obama.
I do actually. I do find it hard to understand why people enjoy the benefits of living in the US and aren't willing to stand up for it or fight so other people can have the same. I can see not enlisting on your own but if your country says shit is going down and they need you to help, then you should do what you can to help. Not decide to move to another country because you were asked to serve.
But is that what the billionaire Patriot Trump did?
Has anybody in this country benefited more from this country's system than Donald Trump? He is the poster child for American capitalism.
I do not believe you can call Trump a patriot, while calling a less fortunate American a
coward for doing the same thing.
I think Trump has more credibility now than he did 2 weeks ago. If he continues to build credibility, less people will be uncomfortable with the idea of serving him in the military. But it is a good thing that our citizens, for the most part, actually
think before they give their lives for a cause. We are not North Korea. We are not Nazis. Our people will not blindly follow a psycho leader, and that is a good thing.