If Stipe beats Ngannou, he is unequivocally the HW GOAT!

Pfftt... I see zero evidence that Ngannou is any better than Brett Rogers. Sure Overeem beat Rogers, but he juiced to the max--and it's not like Ngannou showed he was the better fighter before landing that one punch knockout. Those kind of victories don't say much, other than one person's chin/defense sucks, and the other can hit hard.

Stipe hasn't impressed me much... he was nearly stopped by overeem, beat a failing werdum, and stopped a completely washed up JDS, who he had lost to before.
 
This is going to be a productive argument, with many opinions changed
 
Final Say said:
You know what I meant, 'the' subjective rankings. A number someone else decided to put on the fighters at a given time compared to the number given to a different fighter at a different time. It means nothing.

I don't believe anyone really thinks Fedor has better wins than Stipe
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Rankings are a collection of dozens of media writers opinions, and the average of those rankings is where the final rankings lie.
You consider that subjective, but don't see how your own personal opinionated ranking system is vastly more subjective.

You live in a crazy world and there's really nothing else that can be said about the matter.
 
Taric said:
don't consider your own personal opinionated ranking system subjective.
Click to expand...
{<huh}
You just made that up. You also made sure to add an insult to this falsity even though you are still intentionally misconstruing what I originally said.

Probably because you don't want to admit that stipe is the best heavyweight we've ever seen in the sport but can't really argue against it lol
 
Final Say said:
What's funny is people holding the Struve loss against Stipe so much whilst saying Fedor is higher on the all time list


Lmao? Not a ton of logic in that. And Werdum got completely crushed by Stipe IMMEDIATELY following the best performance of Werdum's career
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wait a sec, Im confused. You say Werdum got 'completely crushed' by Stipe. Do you really believe this? Did you watch it? Stipe got hit and wobbled, Werdum overpushed (stupid move, he aint a rusher like that and never does it. Overconfidence. And Werdum is not even a striker...) got tagged and lost. Thats it, far from a complete crush.

Not because I like Werdum or anything. Aldo is one of my favorites and I have no problems saying he was crushed by Holloway (and I could say it fight 1 alone. Fight2 was even harder for Aldo). He wasnt crushed by Conor, tho. Same thing.

All right, another one: Cain. IMO he is so much better than Stipe will ever be. Stipe is a tough guy, good overall, has some chin, but does not excel at anything.

Give Stipe some time and big fights. Let us see the lvl of competition and his performances. But we are still quite some time away from putting him into HW GOAT discussions.
 
firstroundpick said:
lol you should read the title of the thread
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I don't see Werdum or Cain in the title of thread. Two former UFC champions.
I see Ngannou on there, and only Ngannou on there. Who's third best win is Curtis Blaydes.

Your argument and the thread starters argument aren't even in the same league of each other.

What if Overeem beats Stipe, Cain, JDS, and Werdum in his next 4 fights. Guess what he'd be the GOAT. Awesome... Now let's see it.
 
VIPERdude said:
I still dont get why people are so sure Ngannou has a definite victory. I understand everyone ran and hid under the bed after seeing Ngannou knock out Overeem, It was devastating. However I think every HW hits hard and can knock a guy out with one punch. They all hit hard. Francis may hit the hardest but before I can be convinced he can beat a Stipe Miocic who has a body of work/resume thats far more impressive I have to see Ngannou beat Stipe. Beating an over the hill Arlovski and a post USADA Overeem just doesnt seal the deal for me in saying he is a GOAT. C'mon now
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Oh I'm not sure Stipe is gonna win, I think that fight is 50/50, but if Stipe comes through it he is the GOAT HW is my point
 
1. Fedor
2. Nog
3. Cro Cop
4. JDS
5. Werdum
6. Barnett
7. Cain
8. Stipe
9. Reem
10. Couture
11. Mir
12. Coleman
13. Igor
14. Arlovski
15. Hunt

If Stipe beats Francis, he becomes the GOAT UFC HW......and therefor goes up to #4 spot....from there, with each title defense he goes up 1 spot........thats how i see it....
 
rd1992 said:
Oh I'm not sure Stipe is gonna win, I think that fight is 50/50, but if Stipe comes through it he is the GOAT HW is my point
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I know your point and it is valid. My point was more so beating Ngannou really wont be a surprise to me personally. Also if Stipe beats Ngannou you will get the "Ngannou hype train derailed" threads and posts. I dont think beating Ngannou will make him the GOAT. Still too soon for that IMO
 
Nobru said:
wait a sec, Im confused. You say Werdum got 'completely crushed' by Stipe. Do you really believe this? Did you watch it? Stipe got hit and wobbled, Werdum overpushed (stupid move, he aint a rusher like that and never does it. Overconfidence. And Werdum is not even a striker...) got tagged and lost. Thats it, far from a complete crush.

Not because I like Werdum or anything. Aldo is one of my favorites and I have no problems saying he was crushed by Holloway (and I could say it fight 1 alone. Fight2 was even harder for Aldo). He wasnt crushed by Conor, tho. Same thing.

All right, another one: Cain. IMO he is so much better than Stipe will ever be. Stipe is a tough guy, good overall, has some chin, but does not excel at anything.

Give Stipe some time and big fights. Let us see the lvl of competition and his performances. But we are still quite some time away from putting him into HW GOAT discussions.
Click to expand...

Huh? Werdum is the one who was rocked immediately prior to the rush that got him KO'd, not Stipe. Stipe was controlling the fight with Werdum, thats why Fabricio did what he did. Watch the fight again. He checked Werdum's kicks, easily stopped the takedown, Werdum whiffed multiple punches. At the same time Werdum ate kicks, ate punches... things weren't going well for him.

If you're still misremembering, Stipe even talks about this on the Joe Rogan podcast. He said something along the lines of Werdum 'realized things weren't going to go the way he thought' and that's why he rushed in the way he did. It was truly a last-ditch effort.

I just gotta laugh at Cain being better, guy has two great wins in his entire career and one of em is Brock Lesnar. I don't see him having much of a chance at beating Stipe and I said that before Cain lost to Werdum in embarrassing fashion, he just got completely worked in that fight.
 
Repsac said:
Stipe, IN HIS PRIME, lost to Struve. STRUVE!

Let that sink in.

It's the equivalent of Fedor losing to Goodridge.
Click to expand...
And Joanna lost to Rose Namajunas, a fighter from TUF. People lose once in a while, Struve did a great job that night and Stipe didnt.
 
rd1992 said:
When it comes to resume, objectively speaking Stipe's achievements will have been more impressive than Fedor's. Fedor fought a lot of cans in Pride for the most part.
Click to expand...

JDS beats him, check out JDS best wins and I've added stars next to common victories, also you should take into account that these guys were more battle worn when they fought Stipe:

JDS Best Wins
Cain - KO
Rothwell - Dec
Stipe - Dec
*Hunt - KO
Mir - TKO
Carwin - Dec
*Roy Nelson - Dec
Crocop - TKO
*Gonzaga - KO
Struve - TKO
*Werdum - KO

Stipe's best wins
*Werdum - KO
Reem - KO
JDS - TKO
Arlovski - TKO
*Hunt - TKO
*Gonzaga - Dec
*Roy Nelson - Dec

And if you're just looking at one consecutive UFC run JDS had this:

Werdum - KO
Struve - TKO
Crocop - Verbal submission
Gilbert Yvel - TKO
Gonzaga - KO
Roy Nelson - Dec
Carwin - Dec
Cain - KO
Mir - TKO
 
I can see the argument and have no issues with anyone who feels that way.

My only asterisks for Stipe is that I feel he has fought in the one of the weakest era's of HW we have seen in a long time with most of his big name wins over guys who were at their peek more than a decade ago.
 
Final Say said:
Huh? Werdum is the one who was rocked immediately prior to the rush that got him KO'd, not Stipe. Stipe was controlling the fight with Werdum, thats why Fabricio did what he did. Watch the fight again. He checked Werdum's kicks, easily stopped the takedown, Werdum whiffed multiple punches. At the same time Werdum ate kicks, ate punches... things weren't going well for him.

If you're still misremembering, Stipe even talks about this on the Joe Rogan podcast. He said something along the lines of Werdum 'realized things weren't going to go the way he thought' and that's why he rushed in the way he did. It was truly a last-ditch effort.

I just gotta laugh at Cain being better, guy has two great wins in his entire career and one of em is Brock Lesnar. I don't see him having much of a chance at beating Stipe and I said that before Cain lost to Werdum in embarrassing fashion, he just got completely worked in that fight.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will rewatch it again.

Cain was awfully prepared x Werdum.

Cain has two great wins? Come on, dont forget him so fast. Lesnar, Nog, JDS (2 times). His 1st JDS win was huge(especially after JDS had KOed him. After his 2nd win over JDS I remember ppl saying - right here at sherdog - he was THE goat.

Then right after Cain x JDS II, JDS beat Stipe. Not saying any of these are goat material. Just pointing on how (imo) they are on similar levels.

My strong denials here dont come from Werdum, Cain or JDS being so much better than Stipe. Actually, its the fact that imo they are similar fighters, each one with their own type of skills. None GOAT imo.

Now Stipe will face an animal. Cain handled his animal (Lesnar) with ease. Let us see how it goes.
 
crofighter said:
1. Fedor
2. Nog
3. Cro Cop
4. JDS
5. Werdum
6. Barnett
7. Cain
8. Stipe
9. Reem
10. Couture
11. Mir
12. Coleman
13. Igor
14. Arlovski
15. Hunt

If Stipe beats Francis, he becomes the GOAT UFC HW......and therefor goes up to #4 spot....from there, with each title defense he goes up 1 spot........thats how i see it....
Click to expand...
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but really dude? You have Barnett over Stipe?
 
djacobox372 said:
Pfftt... I see zero evidence that Ngannou is any better than Brett Rogers. Sure Overeem beat Rogers, but he juiced to the max--and it's not like Ngannou showed he was the better fighter before landing that one punch knockout. Those kind of victories don't say much, other than one person's chin/defense sucks, and the other can hit hard.

Stipe hasn't impressed me much... he was nearly stopped by overeem, beat a failing werdum, and stopped a completely washed up JDS, who he had lost to before.
Click to expand...
Zero evidence that Ngannou is any better than Brett Rogers LMFAO? Am I talking to Stevie Wonder?
 
I think Stipe would have to win his next fight and he would have to beat Cain Velasquez before he is even considered as GOAT. Miocic is on a nice run right now, but Fedor was 31-1-1 before he really lost a fight. I am not a Fedor fan, but his record speaks for itself. At the time he was PRIDE champion, most hardcore fans would have picked PRIDE as the overall stronger org. over UFC. He was not fighting a lot of "cans". Andrei Arlovski and Tim Sylvia were the HW champs during Fedors prime, and he DESTROYED both of them in less than 1 round.
 
Taric said:
I don't see Werdum or Cain in the title of thread. Two former UFC champions.
I see Ngannou on there, and only Ngannou on there. Who's third best win is Curtis Blaydes.

Your argument and the thread starters argument aren't even in the same league of each other.

What if Overeem beats Stipe, Cain, JDS, and Werdum in his next 4 fights. Guess what he'd be the GOAT. Awesome... Now let's see it.
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you sound like a pussy
 
rd1992 said:
'HW' GOATS don't get knocked out by Middleweights, regardless of prime or not, and 'HW' GOATS most certainly do not lose to Bigfoot Silva LOL.
Click to expand...
How do you know I am a fedor fan you fucking dingbat
 
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