If Pacquiao beats Matthysse, Garcia, Thurman and Spence he breaks into the Top 50 ATG list

[ironfist05]

The only problem with Manny is, he was never able to adjust in the ring unlike Floyd could, in his tough fights, where he actually was in serious trouble and had to think and use his Boxing IQ. But Manny was just Manny and jumped around darting in and out and side to side and never actually adjusting and changing his attack and style and actually using his Boxing IQ.

I don't know about everyone else and their list and their Boxing IQ test but i understand styles and studying techniques, so i believe i have good judgment of actual talent and skills, but everyone has their favorite fighters and old timers are not changing their list and that's that.

But the ring IQ and defensive techniques and offensive styles that Floyd was able to adjust and dissect and beat is very difficult and almost never done, and it's almost never done on the elite level where your facing superior talent after superior talent and just toying with multiple weight class champions and top pound for pound Boxers.


The top ten list, should be Boxers that actually had to use their Brains and not athletic freaks, that as soon as their athletic abilities were fading, they are destroyed and that's my problem with those fighters, prime example, Roy Jones and Mildrick Taylor.

Fighters that are actually thinkers in the ring, prime examples Ali and Floyd. Sugar Ray Robinson,

Seek and destroyers, but lower ring IQ Boxers, but still top 20, Chavez Sr, Marvin Hagler.

Ali didn't beat Gorge Foreman because of heart and strength, hell according to trainers and friends Ali was getting sick and not looking right, he beat Gorge using his Brain and his trainers were actually giving him a totally different strategy in the ring and actually asking him, what the hell are you doing ?

Sugar Ray Lenard had serious trouble with counter punchers and gifted Boxers, hell Duran was actually counter punching Lenard to death and actually was a superior inside fighter, but all Ray had to do was after 4 rounds when he just knew he was going to have to much trouble trying to out counter punch Duran, just adjust and out Box Duran, like he finally realized and adjusted in fight 2, so Lenards ring IQ wasn't very high, or he wouldn't of lost to Duran in their first fight and the problem that he didn't even try it, shows his wins were more of athletic abilities then Boxing IQ and that's why fighters like terrible Terry Norris and others beat him rather young in his age.

Mayweither didn't beat and outclass Canelo because of his athletic abilities, he actually was past prime in their fight, floyd was using his superior ring IQ against Canelo and thinking skills.

So that's just how i rank Boxers, it's about ring intelligence and the right adjustments, at the right times and overcoming serious adversity and that's something certain fighters just didn't do and failed to actually win certain fights easily, that they lost.

you're allowed to have your personal ranking methods, but that's just showing style favoritism. If you beat a guy, you beat a guy. Doesn't matter if you boxed him up, clobbered him on the inside or just landed that magic detonator punch at the last minute. You can't say "I'm impressed by your resume, but i'm going to give you half credit because you rely too much on athleticism."

 

[TidWell]

you're allowed to have your personal ranking methods, but that's just showing style favoritism. If you beat a guy, you beat a guy. Doesn't matter if you boxed him up, clobbered him on the inside or just landed that magic detonator punch. You can't say "I'm impressed by your resume, but i'm going to give you half credit because you rely too much on athleticism."

Good points and I agree, a win is a win, pretty or not, you gotta give someone their just due credit.

 

[TidWell]

What's the truth again? What's your point? The beyond retarded analysis that if Pac beats 4 great fighters, 3 of whom are still in their prime, before he retires then he finally breaks into the top 50? Yeah I'm no Pac fanatic but even the most hardcore Pac haters think this is ridiculous.

Now go do math, dork, or I'm gonna stuff you into a locker tomorrow.

lol we got a tough guy

 

[BluntTrauma21]

lol we got a tough guy

Have you ever seen the movie The Hangover?

 

[ironfist05]

hey man why are you so emotional I appreciate your response but no need and saying you are tired of someone or call them troll etc.

can you just leave a civil reply?

I already found you the ESPN article from 2007

Google search is garbage now, I tried looking for the ring magazine top 100 from 2007 and I think Pac was in the 80s on that list

Okay listen pleas relax he is not an 8 division titlist, because he didn't win a recognized belt at 126 or 140 he only is a 6 division champion or belt holder.

Please do not get mad that is the truth is what I am saying

How many times did Pac defend his belts? or unify? he has the least title defenses of the modern ATGs go look it up. Even Mosley cleaned house at lightweight and defending his belt more than 4 times.

Mosley defended his IBF lightweigh title 9 times jumped to 147 and wiped the Floor with Oscar to win the WBC belt and defended it against his mandatory before losing to Vernon Forrest twice. He then went up to 154 and whooped Oscar again to capture the WBA and WBC belts.

He then pulled of an amazing destruction of prime Antonio Margarito for the WBA belt that was Mosleys last great win.

Do you rank someone who became undisputed clearing out one division higher than weight hopping for money fights and fighting multiple rematches? Terence Crawford cleaned out 140 became undisputed which is one of the hardest and greatest feats in all of boxing.

I wished he defended it once or twice but he couldn't make the weight anymore and moved up.

I don't blame Manny I blame Arum and Roach for Pacs resume now, Arum refused to let Manny fight any Haymon guys.

Is the eye test allowed in grading legends, if so Terence Crawford has more skills than Manny Pacquiao, of all the modern ATG's Pacman doesn't have the skills, he is mostly reliant on his ability to use his angles and his heart, but since his legs are gone he hasn't look great and lost to Jeff Horn.

Miguel Cotto also dared to be great, he moved all the way to 160 and won against Sergio Martinez he stopped him, he defended his 140 and 147 pound titles multiple times against his mandatory challengers

That right there is more impressive than Pacmans win against a shot drained Oscar de la hoya yes or no?

Pacquiao is a strange case, he seldom fights mandatory Arum just uses him to make money by putting him in with his own fighters bypassing rankings its weird. and this is not knock on Manny its just the truth I wished he defended his titles like real champions of old did.

The ESPN list was shit and from 2007, not 2018. The fact that Manny is still even relevant in 2018 shows how great he is.

You're right, he's not an eight division titlist. He's a six division tiltist and a 4-5 division champion. That's all that matters: being a top player in 8 divisions. Absolutley nobody cares that Hatton or Barrera had been stripped over bullshit politics, they care that he beat Barrera and Hatton, THE champions of the division. Pac's legacy isn't based off of him winning meaningless titles at 135 and 154, it's the fact that he beat up quality fighters across 8 divisions. Whether it was Chatchai Sasakul, Miguel Cotto, Marco Antonio Barrera, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez, Timothy Bradley, Lehlo Ledwaba, whoever. Pac's beat more high level fighters than anybody on Sven Ottke or Terry Flanagan's resume, even though they have plenty of title defenses.

Nobody cares about Shane's LW title reign. He beat up shit competition and inflated 130ers. I'd take Pac's career at FW over Mosley's career at 135. One was a champion who beat a great fighter, the other was a titlist who faced weak competition nobody remembers. His wins over Margarito and DLH (as controversial as the DLH wins were), are what make him the legend he is. So why are you nutting your pants over Shane, but refuse to acknowledge Pac jumping up from 122 to face the man at 126? Or him jumpting up from 135 to face Hatton and Cotto?

Comparing Crawford to Pac is a joke. Crawford was lineal at 135 and 140, that's what mattered. Not hte fact that he beat a guy whose biggest wins were an unproven Russian and Ricky "how did he win that fight" Burns. It's all about who you beat. If you unify a division of killers, than that's an incredible feat. If you unify a diviison of bums, then it's nice, but it doesn't really count for much.

Applying the eye test isn't relevant, and why are you bringing it up to begin with? You're just moving the goalposts again, is it the title defenses? the eye test? Prime Pac would murder Crawford, and you're arguing that he's not skillful because he relies on athleticism and angles? Have you ever considered that those are skills too?


Pac didn't fight his mandatories or face pointless challengers and, if you'd seen some of Pac's mandatories (http://www.boxnews.com.ua/en/ratings/WBO/Welterweight/05-2014), you'd realize that that's good. I'd rather Pac had fought Hatton, Marquez, and Bradley then Jose Santa Cruz, Mike Jones, or Bethel Ushona, even though those were his mandatories. It isn't about the defenses, it's who you fight. And Pac fought quality opponents time and time again.

Yeah, Cotto's win over Martinez is likely better than Pac's win over DLH. That's fine, because I don't even rate Pac's win over DLH in his top 10.

You're a lame troll and I can't believe the mods haven't kicked you to the curb yet.

 

[ironfist05]

Good points and I agree, a win is a win, pretty or not, you gotta give someone their just due credit.

I'm still waiting for a credible list that includes Hpkins, Mosley, Wlad, Ali or Robinson in their top 100.

Look, I'll lower the standards: you can check boxinggangbangs.com, boxersgonewild.com, boxersnextdoor.com and maybe a few others like Braxers.com or interracialboxing.com

 

[Seano]

Good man.

Women in t shirts like that is where its at. More. MORE I SAY!

 

[Seano]

How do you post gifs from Giphy?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

How do you post gifs from Giphy?

Like this. YW

Edit. You tried to embed the HTML5 video of that GIF with the image tags. Make sure you copy the link to the GIF image and embed it like you would any other image with the image tags you just used. Copy the right link.

 

[Seano]

Like this. YW

Edit. You tried to embed the HTML5 video of that GIF with the image tags. Make sure you copy the link to the GIF image and embed it like you would any other image with the image tags you just used. Copy the right link.

Can't ever get pics to work form that site.I tried embedding all of the link options.

 

[aries]

The ESPN list was shit and from 2007, not 2018. The fact that Manny is still even relevant in 2018 shows how great he is.

You're right, he's not an eight division titlist. He's a six division tiltist and a 4-5 division champion. That's all that matters: being a top player in 8 divisions. Absolutley nobody cares that Hatton or Barrera had been stripped over bullshit politics, they care that he beat Barrera and Hatton, THE champions of the division. Pac's legacy isn't based off of him winning meaningless titles at 135 and 154, it's the fact that he beat up quality fighters across 8 divisions. Whether it was Chatchai Sasakul, Miguel Cotto, Marco Antonio Barrera, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez, Timothy Bradley, Lehlo Ledwaba, whoever. Pac's beat more high level fighters than anybody on Sven Ottke or Terry Flanagan's resume, even though they have plenty of title defenses.

Nobody cares about Shane's LW title reign. He beat up shit competition and inflated 130ers. I'd take Pac's career at FW over Mosley's career at 135. One was a champion who beat a great fighter, the other was a titlist who faced weak competition nobody remembers. His wins over Margarito and DLH (as controversial as the DLH wins were), are what make him the legend he is. So why are you nutting your pants over Shane, but refuse to acknowledge Pac jumping up from 122 to face the man at 126? Or him jumpting up from 135 to face Hatton and Cotto?

Comparing Crawford to Pac is a joke. Crawford was lineal at 135 and 140, that's what mattered. Not hte fact that he beat a guy whose biggest wins were an unproven Russian and Ricky "how did he win that fight" Burns. It's all about who you beat. If you unify a division of killers, than that's an incredible feat. If you unify a diviison of bums, then it's nice, but it doesn't really count for much.

Applying the eye test isn't relevant, and why are you bringing it up to begin with? You're just moving the goalposts again, is it the title defenses? the eye test? Prime Pac would murder Crawford, and you're arguing that he's not skillful because he relies on athleticism and angles? Have you ever considered that those are skills too?


Pac didn't fight his mandatories or face pointless challengers and, if you'd seen some of Pac's mandatories (http://www.boxnews.com.ua/en/ratings/WBO/Welterweight/05-2014), you'd realize that that's good. I'd rather Pac had fought Hatton, Marquez, and Bradley then Jose Santa Cruz, Mike Jones, or Bethel Ushona, even though those were his mandatories. It isn't about the defenses, it's who you fight. And Pac fought quality opponents time and time again.

Yeah, Cotto's win over Martinez is likely better than Pac's win over DLH. That's fine, because I don't even rate Pac's win over DLH in his top 10.

You're a lame troll and I can't believe the mods haven't kicked you to the curb yet.

Great answer you pretty much just summed up why TS is a such an idiot.

 

[Strange King]

I think if Manny beats Lucas Mattysse, goes on and beats Danny Garcia, Kieth Thurman and Errol Spence at his age, he will have done one of the most impressive resurgent comebacks in boxing history.

I think he would easily break the Top 50 of all time yes or no? He is already in the top 100 obviously I think many people have him around 75 all time, but if he does this it would easily put him past the top 50.

I think it would be hard for Paquiao to top Durans wins over Davey Moore and Iran Barkley, but Pac would be up there with most impressive boxing resurgent comebacks

That would be amazing if he did all that and think he has a chance to beat some but not spence or thurman.

also hes already top 50

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

ESPN doesn't even have Paquiao on the Top 50 list, Mike Tyson is number 50 here is the list Floyd is too low at 48 and even Barrera and Morales are on the ESPN top 50 list, Pacman doesn't even make that list and this was from 2007 so how can you say 15 years ago he made the top 50
he wasn't even on the list on ESPN 15 years ago

http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/greatest/featureVideo?page=greatest4150

Manny beat two people on that list twice(Morales and Barrera), and very convincingly if I may add.

No boxer, Muay thai fighter, kickboxer, judoka, or any other form of combat athlete has even won world titles in 8 weight classes while competing in 10, nor will that happen for a very long time.

Garcia, Lucas, Spence, and Thurman are currently nobodies in comparison to him resume-wise.

Also, enough with the repetitive Pacman threads already ffs. You're getting old, and I'm really starting to suspect mods are being bribed or threatened to keep u here.

 

[tekkennlee]

you're allowed to have your personal ranking methods, but that's just showing style favoritism. If you beat a guy, you beat a guy. Doesn't matter if you boxed him up, clobbered him on the inside or just landed that magic detonator punch at the last minute. You can't say "I'm impressed by your resume, but i'm going to give you half credit because you rely too much on athleticism."

Don't get me wrong Roy Jones is top 15 on my list and the best, middle weight and super middle weight fighter ever and Manny is top 20, but my point was after you lose some of your athletic abilities or someone takes them away like Chavez did to Taylor and you actually fight stupid the last round of a fight, your winning and you know, this man can actually hurt you and you fight toe to toe tying to knock him out, all your superior athletic abilities and incredible hand speed means nothing, without Boxing intelligence and making the right judgment, even if your corner tells you something stupid to do.

Pernnell Whitaker wasn't the most athletic fighter ever, he's the most intelligent fighter ever and tried to teach, Jab Judah his ring intelligence and not just footwork, because you need to apply the footwork using intelligence and not athletic abilities, but Judah could never be like Whitaker and Judah was more athletic then Whitaker , Judah couldn't learn this because his ring intelligence is to poor to learn this.

Ward isn't the most athletic fighter ever but his ring intelligence is superior to every fighter he's faced and had serious trouble with Kovalev and had a draw or lost or barely won their first fight and everyone agrees that fight was so close and tough for Ward, more then Kovalev and it's a draw fight or 1 point either way fight.

But to come back and stop Kovalev the way he did actually hurting him and out boxing him, nobody saw that coming except his trainer and some people who maybe got a lucky guess or just copied what they claimed. Wards ring intelligence is to superior to Kovalev and will beat him every time and you know it and i know it.

Would Roy beat Ward at super middle weight? hell yes a shut out, but could Ward figure Roy out and beat Roy i wouldn't doubt it and bet against Ward in a rematch, because i understand his ring intelligence . The same way Chavez finally got to Taylor after wearing him down with body attacks and pressure, Ward did it to Kovalev and could actually do it to Roy. Who's to say Roy actually out boxes Ward and maybe Ward does better then Hopkins and adjust to Roy"s speed by using footwork and cutting off the ring and body work.

But we will never know and only can guess and speculate the outcome. But Roy Jones at that weight and that prime is almost impossible to beat in the first fight, second fight a different story and a James toney that"s in shape, i believe beats Roy in their first fight every time.

I believe James Toney is the more ring intelligent fighter then Roy Jones and will nullify Roy"s athletic abilities, because timing beats speed, but you have to be 100% physical and mentally prepared and not taking diet pills, or ballooning up over 200 pounds, before any fight and have the dedication like Floyd.

That's just how i see things and rating all time great fighters and where they are ranked.

 

[Seano]

I wouldn’t mind catching a parasitic worm from her rear end if you know what I mean

I think I'd pass on the worm, actually.

 

[Black Helicopters]

I think I'd pass on the worm, actually.

Where happened to your sense of adventure, Seano?

 

[Seano]

Where happened to your sense of adventure, Seano?

Just not a sexually transmitted worm sort of guy.

 

[TidWell]

looks like Manny is dreaming big too bad his mind is too ambitious he will fail he might have a shot at Broner but Spence, Porter, Thurman, Floyd and Garcia all whoop him no way he cleans house if he does id be shocked

 

[wallyboxngvsmma]

I think if Manny beats Lucas Mattysse, goes on and beats Danny Garcia, Kieth Thurman and Errol Spence at his age, he will have done one of the most impressive resurgent comebacks in boxing history.

I think he would easily break the Top 50 of all time yes or no? He is already in the top 100 obviously I think many people have him around 75 all time, but if he does this it would easily put him past the top 50.

I think it would be hard for Paquiao to top Durans wins over Davey Moore and Iran Barkley, but Pac would be up there with most impressive boxing resurgent comebacks

Hes already there smoky Robinson.

 

[TidWell]

Hes already there smoky Robinson.

He beat Lucas and Thurman, but he hasn't beat Spence or Garcia