If Jones wasn't on PED's, can we say for sure that DC would have won?

Maybe if it went the distance. That head kick though definitely did not come from PED's. What's your thought on this? 1st fight? 2nd fight?
Its very hard to tell since PEDs help to train harder and more in the long run, Jones is still young and healthy so he wouldn't deteriorate like Vitor (wasnt it him saying "TRT dosn't kick you in the head") or Bigfoot but he would've been in worse shape so who knows
 
You can't prove that Jon Jones could beat a 12 year old girl without roids. What exactly is your point. He didn't believe he could win without cheating.
 
This is way more important than people seem to realize. Strength, speed, and gas tank aside, everyone knows fighting is a huge portion mental. If Jones went in scared or hesitant a split second of pause before throwing a technique could have gotten him KO'd.
This. The mental factor on this forum is very underrated. Any kind of advantage (fair or illegal) makes a huge difference in a fight.
 
We'll never know.

All we do know is that Jon Jones felt like he needed them to win. That's it.

This. It is literally the only thing we can be sure of.

High probability that JJJ was on a cocktail, but that is just my opinion.
 
Jones certainly didn't risk his career and his legacy, of shits and giggles
Pretty much this. He either knows he can't win without gear and got caught, or he is the victim of the most malicious sabotage in history. I don't know what to think. It's hard to believe he's that stupid.
 
DC is yet to actually fight a "clean" Jones so its hard to tell but the last 2 "wins" Jones has over DC will have to be NCs due to failed drug tests that include Steroids, Turinabol, Clomiphene & Letrozole.
 
If a tree falls in a forest and it crushes TRTVitor's Jesus-Juice, wood you make his wife feel your riddum?

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PEDs make a difference, but I think Jones wins regardless. He wouldn't have been quite as big/strong, probably not quite as confident, and probably wouldn't have felt quite as good in camp, but at the end of the day he's just more skilled overall than DC. And sure, part of that is his size/reach, but it is what it is.
 
Nobody can say that.
What we can say is that Jones couldn't say for sure that without steroids he could beat DC.
 
If Jones thought he could've won without the Juice he wouldn't have got popped. That's all you need to know TS
 
Maybe if it went the distance. That head kick though definitely did not come from PED's. What's your thought on this? 1st fight? 2nd fight?
The ability to train relentlessly for 6 hours a day to land that kick with such precision may have come directly from it. Given he has popped twice, we now know it has.

D.C. On the other hand... he looked fucking amazing compared to the first fight. Nobody is talking about that, which is a shame.
 
Can we say Jones would've even won the title without roids - before the DC feud?
 
Training under PEDs lets you train harder, more often and recover so you can outwork the other guy who can only rely on his natural limitations. In the ring there are active benefits in strength, endurance, making weight, psychological..... There is a reason these things are banned. They give a huge advantage. The kick wasn't a Jones masterpiece it was part DC losing focus on both offense and covering and Jones.

Jones advantage is is range. People talk about his fight IQ and it is good as well as his physical abilities. With range, you can always stay calm because you have lots of solutions. He is never really tested because he controls the ability to hit or not be hit. DOES ANYONE REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW HARD IT WAS TO DO WHAT DC DID FOR OVER 10 MINUTES? Higher IQ and a better fighter who made a mistake out of excitement because he felt he was doing it.

Everyone he fights is at a huge disagvantage. To fight someone at a disadvantage (like a race with a huge lead) the disadvantaged guy has to overcome that. When JBJ fights he looks like he is doing heavy bag work more than actually mixing it up. People have to walk through all his strikes to get to him and then he uses those long arms to get around them where others cant.

With all those advantages, DC should not have been close. DC because he was overcoming all those disadvantages is the better fighter. One strike from a fighter who should never need to back up being backed up for a full two rounds shows who the better fighter was.

Sera was not better than GSP because of theat one punch. GSP screwed up. DC was winning. I would love a lawsuit and to put him and other people on trial to find out what actually happened over his career. A lot of people did a lot of training to challenge for the title. DC gets the belt and the pay day that Jones forfeits then the UFC sues him for damages.
 
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-Who knows. DC was winning the fight regardless. Then he got caught. We can't deny Jones is a great fighter and has great fight intelligence.
-After listening to Chael Sonnen, he made a lot of sense. I mean jones was deadlifting 600lbs. He was huge and shredded up. Just look at the before and after pictures. I think Jones was just masking his PED's during random drug testing, and since he knew he had 1 more scheduled test he probably thought he could elevate his intake some and still pass. USADA has caught Jones twice now, right?
-To those who say Jones was set up, there are basically two ways and I'll give my opinion on why I don't think he was.
1)Sample contamination after pissing in the cup
2)His food or drink was tainted before the weigh in's
-First, it would be very hard to contaminate either a or b sample. The process is pretty legit and hard to intervene. If it was easy to contaminate samples, we would see much more instances of contamination.
-Secondly, It would be hard for roids to even show up if his supply was tainted. It would need to be often and constant. That would take a lot of money for whoever has a vendetta against jones.
-Take those two in, and ask who would taint his supply? Jones most likely keeps a close circle and has a trusted team, so we can rule out the team with probably 90% confidence. Besides, wouldn't it be his job to control who touches his food or drink? I mean given they "worked hard" to monitor and make sure nothing was tainted. Dana White/UFC wouldn't do it, there's no good reason to. Why would they risk having one of their most marketable fighters leave the organization or be banned from 4 years.
-The only organization that may try to taint jones food,drink, or sample would be Bellator. A) They have the money, B) they need a big fighter as the face of their company. But then, they run the risk of having a "roid head" being their face. So again, I think we can rule that out.

At the end of the day, we have to realize we are dealing with Jon Jones. He's failed 2 fights straight, has a bad reputation, of course he could let everybody down.
 
Yes the steroids helped jones' brain. Without them he wouldn't have had the smarts to set up the high kick that knocked DC out with low and mid kicks all night. (Sarcasm)

It may have helped in the first fight though as that fight was in the trenches and he just outlasted and out grinded DC.
 
Jones wins with or without peds, that's why he's the GOAT.
 
Then officially both were clean - first fight (but I believe both were roided actually) - Jones won, so 1-0 in favor of Jones.
 
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