IDEAL HW WEIGHT

[Sapp]

A guy who cuts to 265 while not being fat.

 

[Kumason]

Obviously depends on style,physique etc and considering most HW's weigh around 250 that's going to be the most common answer.If every was an athletic freak like Lesnar with his size and actually have striking....


Just not love handle Werdum =/ 232 Werdum like vs Hunt and Browne (first fight) is a different beast (cain too at about 235)

 

[grimballer]

With cap probably 265

Imagine an athletic NBA player like Dwight Howard

Listed at 6'11 n 265 (most likely more than that)

There's no way today's top hw would be able to deal with him.

Stephen Struve has a w over current hw champ n he's nowhere near the caliber of athlete Howard is

 

[Will Samuelson]

tree fiddy

 

[campbecc]

The answer for an OPENWEIGHT fighter is around 290, as the upper echelon of freaks in the NFL (JJ Watt types) walk around at that weight while also being faster & more agile than any UFC Heavyweight, most of whom weigh 50 lbs less. However, considering that the UFC HW weight limit is 265, I'd say 275 is the ideal weight because you can be huge on fight night without sacrificing cardio from excessive weight cutting, a la Brock/Carwin.

Obviously people will point to Fedor, Werdum, Big Nog etc being around 230 and be fooled into thinking that 230-240 is the ideal weight, but the truly elite physical specimens around the world do not compete in MMA, simply because there is more money in other sports.

Okay MMA doesn't pay that well; if huge guys are great at fighting why have they never dominated boxing? when JJ Watt was growing up the highest paid athletes were HW boxers.

 

[campbecc]

Size/strength is a MUCH BIGGER ADVANTAGE in grappling than in striking, which is why someone with Lesnar/Watt's body type has never dominated any striking arts.

If that's true then why is the absolute champion in ADCC rarely a HW?

Edit: as far as your edit. Lesnar had years of training in wrestling that as far as I know Watt doesn't. And he lost against elite level competition.

 

[Dorkman]

Well, we've seen a 265 lb man beat a 225lb man for the belt, but we've also seen a 225lb man beat a 265lb man for the belt as well. It's like there isn't one specific answer, weird.

 

[campbecc]

Because ADCC doesn't allow slams.....you would have a bunch of JJ Watts piledriving people, a la what Sapp did to Nogueira.

you do know Nog submitted Sapp?

 

[campbecc]

He almost died in the first exchange, and prime Nog had the most legendary chin ever. Almost every other BJJ guy in the world would've died from that slam.

Not only that, but Sapp put a G & P beatdown on Nogueira before he got submitted; his shoulders were so huge that Nogueira's triangle wouldn't even work on him. Again, only Nog could've survived that.

that's all conjecture. The fact is the far smaller man beat the bigger man after wearing him out; which is a common strategy when a small HW fights a big one.

 

[campbecc]

Except that bigger man (Sapp) had literally NO martial arts experience at all prior to fighting Nogueira. Give JJ Watt a few years of serious MMA training (which is something I already said previously) and I stick to my hypothesis.

your hypothesis is based on zero data; mine is based on the history of combat sports. Being too big is not good for fighting.

 

[777 Others]

I think once the UFC gets more money into it, 265 lbs will be the standard. Massive NFL DE type guys would be ideal like JJ Watt.

Would love to see this!

 

[campbecc]

Mine is also based on the history of combat sports. Perhaps the only A-level athlete that MMA has ever seen was also 290 lbs. He won the UFC Heavyweight title in just 4 pro fights and defended it twice, all against vastly superior TECHNICAL fighters. Now imagine if that man had started MMA as most wrestlers do, straight out of college instead of at 30 years of age?

he looked terrible against actual elite level opponent in Cain or Overeem. Carwin beat the hell out of him until he wore out because of the rules.

He beat a nearly 50 year old Randy and tied 1-1 against Frank Mir.

 

[South-East]

Nganou
Volkov
Joshua
Verhoeven
These guys are huge,
they are the future of HW combat sports.

 

[mmacasualviewer]

A better question would be best bodyfat % regardless of whether you are Rothwell or Cain in frame/height.

 

[campbecc]

Bringing up Carwin & Ubereem are downright silly on your part, since your argument is that being "too big" is bad for fighting. His losses to Cain and Overeem were because of a life-threatening disease; if Brock had been healthy, he beats both of them soundly.

You pointed out how Carwin beat the hell out of Brock, but Brock himself was doing the same to Mir before he got caught in a fluke kneebar.

Btw I call it a fluke because he PROVED it was in their rematch; Mir literally had zero success from the moment the moment to when it was stopped.

yes sure this mythical "healthy Brock"

You can say someone was past his prime but his prime can't be one or two fights

 

[aus101]

Prime ubereem, Brock, hunt, black beast etc all tell me as big as possible is best (so for a 265 weight limit 290s max).

So few men are that large in shape it's likely the best fighter is smaller BUT all those fighters experience advantages due to their size, even against other large opponents.

I mean how does hunt even compete (or become ranked 7th in the world in MMA) against these "perfect combination of speed and strength" 230/240 pounders standing 5'10 70 inch reach 285 pounds plus (way over the apparent optimum weight and way under the average height of even WW's, with a FW's reach...)?

 

[campbecc]

Prime ubereem, Brock, hunt, black beast etc all tell me as big as possible is best (so for a 265 weight limit 290s max).

So few men are that large in shape it's likely the best fighter is smaller BUT all those fighters experience advantages due to their size, even against other large opponents.

I mean how does hunt even compete (or become ranked 7th in the world in MMA) against these "perfect combination of speed and strength" 230/240 pounders standing 5'10 70 inch reach 285 pounds plus (way over the apparent optimum weight and way under the average height of even WW's, with a FW's reach...)?

ubereem and Brock were juiced to the gills so that's not fair competition. But I think HW should have no weight limit.

 

[Weuylf]

It's hard to find a 265 lbs in shape, heart of a fighter, with skills to match the size man. If that ever happens that'll be the ideal weight. Better yet they should remove the weight limit, it's so stupid. If there is a genetic freak that is at his absolute best at 280 pounds he shouldn't have to cut.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Healthy Cain Velasquez is the ideal heavyweight, and the ideal horse is a unicorn.

 

[grimballer]

Okay MMA doesn't pay that well; if huge guys are great at fighting why have they never dominated boxing? when JJ Watt was growing up the highest paid athletes were HW boxers.

1st off team sports like football or basketball were always more popular. They are available from high school to college n Excelling in these sports could mean getting a scholarship n free education.

Boxing on the other hand was always for kids that weren't good nuff for football/basketball or were troubled youth n couldn't keep good nuff grades to stay on the hs football/bball team.

If boxing was available in schools n top prospects could get scholarships for college, you would probably see more elite athletes choosing boxing.

Now that being said boxing is way more difficult than mma.

In mma lack of skills can be compensated by athleticism, which is not the case in boxing.
B
Look at guys like ngannou n black beast

They started training as boxers n didn't go far

They switched to mma n are now to fighters in top mma organization