IBJJF ruleset is awful for nogi

[Quebec Nick]

Watched the IBJJF grand prix last night

The idea was good, a selected bracket of very good grapplers

But the ruleset with advantages is so awful for nogi.

Stalling all over the place, pointless wrestling with one of the guy not engaging because he knows that the first points can lose him the match.

Just hips out, not giving a arm drag and let the other guy push you out of bounds

The best wrestler (Bodoni) had to pull guard to have some decent action

Also saw people getting advantages for sloppy leg locks and winning by that


Kaynan Duarte had at least real points going on, sweeping, passing, getting mount... but always kind of stalling when ahead just waiting for a very obvious mistake to try for a sub


Sub only is by far more entertaining than what I saw last night

We need sub only and a judging system not reliable enough so you get afraid to go to the judges, I want to see submission hunting, not advantages and points

 

[yetanother]

Watched the IBJJF grand prix last night

The idea was good, a selected bracket of very good grapplers

But the ruleset with advantages is so awful for nogi.

Stalling all over the place, pointless wrestling with one of the guy not engaging because he knows that the first points can lose him the match.

Just hips out, not giving a arm drag and let the other guy push you out of bounds

The best wrestler (Bodoni) had to pull guard to have some decent action

Also saw people getting advantages for sloppy leg locks and winning by that


Kaynan Duarte had at least real points going on, sweeping, passing, getting mount... but always kind of stalling when ahead just waiting for a very obvious mistake to try for a sub


Sub only is by far more entertaining than what I saw last night

We need sub only and a judging system not reliable enough so you get afraid to go to the judges, I want to see submission hunting, not advantages and points

Best wrestler? Looked to me like Kaynan took down Bodonoi with his first shot.

 

[Human Bass]

Karate Combat pit is the perfect solution for nogi.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Karate Combat pit is the perfect solution for nogi.

Agree with that

It's an awesome setup, that or a cage

I wouldn't any stupid injuries due to the angle

But anything to avoid just going out of the mat

 

[Quebec Nick]

Best wrestler? Looked to me like Kaynan took down Bodonoi with his first shot.

Kaynan looked very good I agree, he looked good everywhere and won fair and square

But Gaudio and Rocha was pretty much active staling

 

[Einheri]

You can't really call it stalling if you have full mount. I'll quite often get to mount and let uke cook for a while; they're wasting energy trying and failing to escape while I'm recovering, climbing my mount slowly, and exerting pressure. If uke is not attempting to escape then that's on them as it's straight losing in any context (grappling, self defence, MMA).

 

[Quebec Nick]

You can't really call it stalling if you have full mount. I'll quite often get to mount and let uke cook for a while; they're wasting energy trying and failing to escape while I'm recovering, climbing my mount slowly, and exerting pressure. If uke is not attempting to escape then that's on them as it's straight losing in any context (grappling, self defence, MMA).

No problem with taking your time in full mount or in the back

It's more about being back in the guard with the lead in points. You can stay there forever without really engaging

 

[Bluesbreaker]

Kaynan looked very good I agree, he looked good everywhere and won fair and square

But Gaudio and Rocha was pretty much active staling

I'd suggest that if you have those two in your event, stalling is inevitable.

 

[yetanother]

You can't really call it stalling if you have full mount. I'll quite often get to mount and let uke cook for a while; they're wasting energy trying and failing to escape while I'm recovering, climbing my mount slowly, and exerting pressure. If uke is not attempting to escape then that's on them as it's straight losing in any context (grappling, self defence, MMA).

If you are talking about "cooking" and exerting pressure on people for prolonged periods of time from the mount you are stalling.

 

[Einheri]

If you are talking about "cooking" and exerting pressure on people for prolonged periods of time from the mount you are stalling.

Just until the will to fight leaves them. When you get to full mount there tends to be a period of great exertion when they're trying their hardest to escape, smother, tighten up any space, thwart their attempts to make space, frame, or bridge. When I feel that initial response start to die off then I really go on the attack. That's not stalling that's just mount.

 

[Chandler sama]

IBJJF invited the wrong people if they wanted an exciting event. Absolute is going to be mostly HWs who are known to be boring. They had Roberto Jiminez in it, but he dropped out to do the FPI 6. They would be better off doing a lower weight nogi GP and adjusting the rules. IBJJF seem to make the matches boring, so they really need to make some new rules for their pro events. The gi GPs had the same problem.

I do stats for events and have been doing action stats. I track how many attempts at moves there are per 5 min interval. The Nogi GP had 4.46 moves attempted per 5 min, so there was less than 1 technique even attempted per min. You can see the stats here yourself.

https://thegrapplingconjecture.blogspot.com/2024/02/what-we-learned-from-ibjjf-2024-nogi-gp.html

On the other hand Fightpass Invitational 6 had 9.35 moves attempted per 5 min. That is double the amount of action. Check it out here.
https://thegrapplingconjecture.blogspot.com/2024/03/what-we-learned-from-fightpass.html

Not only that, but that GP was the 2nd lowest I've ever recorded. The lowest was IBJJ Nogi worlds last year. Literally every other event has had more action. Polaris, WNO, FPI, EBI, etc all have more action. Granted I haven't done a ton of events, but out of about 20 events the 2 IBJJF that I have done are at the bottom. You can see the rest of the stats here.

https://thegrapplingconjecture.blogspot.com/2023/12/the-year-in-nogi-grappling-2023-pt1.html

 

[shunyata]

If you are talking about "cooking" and exerting pressure on people for prolonged periods of time from the mount you are stalling.

I wouldn't classify that as a pressing concern in stalling that should be regulated in BJJ or sub grappling rules.

The main thing you need stalling penalties for is inactivity or constant retreating in standup grappling. Same way wrestling and judo do it.

Although, the karate combat pit or a cage kind of solves the problem for you.

Getting pushed out of bounds should have a punishment, the pit does it nicely.

 

[yetanother]

I wouldn't classify that as a pressing concern in stalling that should be regulated in BJJ or sub grappling rules.

The main thing you need stalling penalties for is inactivity or constant retreating in standup grappling. Same way wrestling and judo do it.

Although, the karate combat pit kind or a cage solves the problem for you.

Getting pushed out of bounds should have a punishment, the pit does it nicely.

Agree this is a much bigger problem.

 

[TheFlamingFist]

Watched the IBJJF grand prix last night

The idea was good, a selected bracket of very good grapplers

But the ruleset with advantages is so awful for nogi.

Stalling all over the place, pointless wrestling with one of the guy not engaging because he knows that the first points can lose him the match.

Just hips out, not giving a arm drag and let the other guy push you out of bounds

The best wrestler (Bodoni) had to pull guard to have some decent action

Also saw people getting advantages for sloppy leg locks and winning by that


Kaynan Duarte had at least real points going on, sweeping, passing, getting mount... but always kind of stalling when ahead just waiting for a very obvious mistake to try for a sub


Sub only is by far more entertaining than what I saw last night

We need sub only and a judging system not reliable enough so you get afraid to go to the judges, I want to see submission hunting, not advantages and points

I don’t have a problem with points because from those positions in a real self defense situation you could be reigning down punches and elbows. I know it’s not allowed obviously but sport can translate to real life and that’s why the Gracie’s even invented jiu jitsu was for self defense not entertainment. IMO

 

[yetanother]

I don’t have a problem with points because from those positions in a real self defense situation you could be reigning down punches and elbows. I know it’s not allowed obviously but sport can translate to real life and that’s why the Gracie’s even invented jiu jitsu was for self defense not entertainment. IMO

The points are not the problem, but the stalling.
I would assume that in self defense situations the ability to either harm the guy, move to a some restraining hold or get away is useful rather then always keeping it in an mostly undetermined state till outside forces intervene.

 

[TheFlamingFist]

The points are not the problem, but the stalling.
I would assume that in self defense situations the ability to either harm the guy, move to a some restraining hold or get away is useful rather then always keeping it in an mostly undetermined state till outside forces intervene.

You can strike from a stalling position so in real life it wouldn’t be stalling lol what I don’t like about sub only sometimes people just hunt for the submission and end up on bottom because all they care about is submissions