- Joined
- Dec 17, 2016
- Messages
- 338
- Reaction score
- 0
I said it earlier in the thread. Dips esp but bench to a lesser extent make triceps stronger and that allows the cns to contract the tricep faster. My jab got much faster when I started dipping more.
I want to increase my punching power, what exercises are best?
- Thread starter BringBackTRTforFairness
- Start date
I said it earlier in the thread. Dips esp but bench to a lesser extent make triceps stronger and that allows the cns to contract the tricep faster. My jab got much faster when I started dipping more.
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Messages
- 10,879
- Reaction score
- 0
There's a point at which that is true, but before that, there is a point at which it is not true. A certain amount a strength gain is required for someone to generate maximum speed.
I don't know anyone who is physically weak but exceptionally fast.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2014
- Messages
- 22,361
- Reaction score
- 18,072
Punching
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2011
- Messages
- 14,826
- Reaction score
- 10,726
Yes it is.
Strength is not speed, and I doubt heavy benching + dips does anything for your handspeed. I don't think it slows it down either.
Speed is motor control (antagonist inhibition, muscle co-ordination, relaxation), rate of force development, impulse, fiber type and contraction rate, the SSC and a few other things. Max strength does very little for any of those. It might increase the RFD curve a little bit at the end, but it doesn't necessarily effect the speed on the contraction. A few other important things is that if you look at the force velocity curve, speed, and especially handspeed, is at the lower end of the force spectrum:
You would want to train most of the hand speed attributes at that stage, meaning with maximal speed instead of maximal resistance. There are some contentions about intention though which does play a part. Another important point is that strength adaptions tend to be somewhat velocity specific. If you want an interesting read, although it's more barbell related, check this out: https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/perspectives/lifting-weights-fast/
When you get into something like punching it's massively more complicated what makes someone fast, than being able to lift heavy things. Motor control and contractile properties are probably two of the most important aspects but it's hard to say.
Max strength is great for a lot of things so it should be trained, and while it can have some correlation to speed, and especially power, it doesn't equal speed.
Weak is obviously relative, but one of the fastest hands in the game:
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2016
- Messages
- 338
- Reaction score
- 0
Yes it is.
Strength is not speed, and I doubt heavy benching + dips does anything for your handspeed. I don't think it slows it down either.
Speed is motor control (antagonist inhibition, muscle co-ordination, relaxation), rate of force development, impulse, fiber type and contraction rate, the SSC and a few other things. Max strength does very little for any of those. It might increase the RFD curve a little bit at the end, but it doesn't necessarily effect the speed on the contraction. A few other important things is that if you look at the force velocity curve, speed, and especially handspeed, is at the lower end of the force spectrum:
You would want to train most of the hand speed attributes at that stage, meaning with maximal speed instead of maximal resistance. There are some contentions about intention though which does play a part. Another important point is that strength adaptions tend to be somewhat velocity specific. If you want an interesting read, although it's more barbell related, check this out: https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/perspectives/lifting-weights-fast/
When you get into something like punching it's massively more complicated what makes someone fast, than being able to lift heavy things. Motor control and contractile properties are probably two of the most important aspects but it's hard to say.
Max strength is great for a lot of things so it should be trained, and while it can have some correlation to speed, and especially power, it doesn't equal speed.
Weak is obviously relative, but one of the fastest hands in the game:
I literally improved my own hand speed by a very noticeable amount from adding weighted dips. The op wanted to remove skill/technique work from his question and focus on supplemental exercise selection. The speed work that would be most beneficial to punching would be punching specific i.e. drills/mitts/bags/sparring, but otherwise improving strength for the vast majority of people will improve hand speed to some degree. For most people its easier to make them faster and/or more powerful by simply making them stronger. Plyometrics should also be incorporated. The fastest runners squat and clean to improve their speed (amongst other training methods). I follow more boxers than i should on instagram and have seen many boxers doing dips on their stories. Dips help. If you disagree I strongly suggest you try them for a few weeks and see what happens. Unless your already a very strong person, you will have some improvement to your hand speed. Honestly if I had a larger sample size than just myself I could probably make a much better case about this.
R
ripskater
Guest
I still don't agree with you on the bench/dips thing.
But I do believe core strength can help hand speed. Because I believe you will only swing/throw as fast as your core can handle.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2016
- Messages
- 338
- Reaction score
- 0
A lot of boxers do dips. Bench isn't popular in boxing gyms because of equipment costs and breaking tradition.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2012
- Messages
- 88,696
- Reaction score
- 40,818
Or because it doesnt contribute significantly to the fighter.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2016
- Messages
- 338
- Reaction score
- 0
Kovalev benches and he has some of the best straight punches in his division only really rivaled by adonis stevenson. Benching won't make everyone into kovalev but kovalev benching will help him put more mustard on his punches. It's one of many tools in the toolbox to train fighters.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,448
- Reaction score
- 0
Ripskater is the minority but I believe he is still right.
Bench and dips will only increase hand speed on an arm jab since its the one punch you are using the upper body for
All other punches in boxing come from mostly the hips and 1 leg.
So theres no reason why considerable dip and bench press strength will help, if you are adding the force of your upper body to the punch you are breaking the kinetic linking and the punch is less powerful. You don't ADD power with the upper body, you IMPEDE lower body power and the build up of speed and momentum when you try to use the upper body in a punch.
The upper body of a good power punch is just along for the ride, at impact you may want to tighten up everything but this does not take much upper body strength to do.
So basically if you cant punch bench pressing will help
If you know how to punch properly bench pressing wont help much at all and is a waste of efforts that could be used elsewhere, somewhere useful.
Bench and dips will only increase hand speed on an arm jab since its the one punch you are using the upper body for
All other punches in boxing come from mostly the hips and 1 leg.
So theres no reason why considerable dip and bench press strength will help, if you are adding the force of your upper body to the punch you are breaking the kinetic linking and the punch is less powerful. You don't ADD power with the upper body, you IMPEDE lower body power and the build up of speed and momentum when you try to use the upper body in a punch.
The upper body of a good power punch is just along for the ride, at impact you may want to tighten up everything but this does not take much upper body strength to do.
So basically if you cant punch bench pressing will help
If you know how to punch properly bench pressing wont help much at all and is a waste of efforts that could be used elsewhere, somewhere useful.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2016
- Messages
- 338
- Reaction score
- 0
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/IGH/IGH0703/IGH0703d.pdf
Arm extension contributes to the force a punch generates to say it negatively effects the kinetic chain is plain ignorance. It does not contribute as much as legs/hips/core but it is still a part of the equation.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,448
- Reaction score
- 0
Good discussion bros I think it has turned into a Jimmy Rustling competition however, and my Jimmies are all Rustled out. If my Jimmies were to be Rustled one more time I feel I would explode.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2017
- Messages
- 1,448
- Reaction score
- 0
Its amazing how weak Kahn is, the poundage's they use are so low, not all but many are using less weight than the avid gym goer it seems. But unlike the avid Gym goer Kahn has amazing hips and can knock your block off and punch 5 full power punches in 1 second. Not to mention run miles and miles
- Joined
- May 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 370
For some reason I confuse BringBackTRTforFairness and ItsTimeToShrekYouUp as being the same person. But anyways, I like doing bench dips even though they do strain my wrist a bit.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2011
- Messages
- 14,826
- Reaction score
- 10,726
You very well might have, I don't know. It sounds very unlikely though that your hand speed would improve drasticly/very noticeably from a few weeks of weighted dips training. Did you do any other drills that might have improved your handspeed? Did you train boxing while doing it? Did you improve on something else? I'm not saying it's not possible to some degree because I'm sure it could contribute, but I still feel like it's important not to equate strength with speed.
Yes, many boxers do high rep BW dips, and a plethora of other BW exercises. They do them as a way to conditioning their bodies, not improve their handspeed. I don't really see that as a compelling argument. If you're adding plyos and drills, then that might be the thing that is responsible for the improvements in handspeed.
Max strength does help to some degree, especially moving up the force velocity curve. If you have to move increasingly heavier things around, max strength gets more important. Either way I think more boxers should incorperate weight training for the many benefits, but I don't see any evidence of something like heavy bench and dips being important for handspeed, or even punching power. If they are, they are on the lower end of the spectrum. Genetics matter a lot as well.
What's your boxing/striking background?
- Joined
- May 9, 2005
- Messages
- 6,528
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2016
- Messages
- 338
- Reaction score
- 0
Been boxing for almost two years now. Started after high school and one of my former teachers got me into it. I was doing about 5 nights a week of training boxing when I started adding dips. I don't believe I was doing any new drills during this time, the only new thing I added was dips. Then my hands became much faster, probably across a period of 2 months or so. This past January to March.
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/IGH/IGH0703/IGH0703d.pdf
I'm leaving this here. Please read it.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2011
- Messages
- 14,826
- Reaction score
- 10,726
Oh okay, cool. Hard to gauge, but if you saw and felt improvements that's all that matters. There's no reason not to do it (unless you have certain shoulder issues).
Thanks for the article, a cool read. A lot of relevant stuff in there, but I don't know if it is enough to end the discussion. The only thing that directly pertains to your argument was this part:
"In 1983 B.A. Solovey investigated the effects of exercises with weights as a means of improving hitting speed in young boxers and concluded that the use of weights significantly increased the speed of a single punch thrown by either arm.5"
Unfortunately I can't find the study and a broad statement like that, especially without looking into the source material, is not conclusive enough. Participants, intervention, bias, overall study quality matters and even then it would probably still be inconclusive.
Mostly the author is talking about periodization, plyos and olympic lifts. The Holyfield example was different. They had him tied to the floor with resistance, weight vest on, doing all kinds of shenanigans. His working sets were 8-11 range too and he gained weight with the purpose of going up to HW.
