I am pro universal higher-ed, however, on college debt, what about responsbility?

[JudoThrowFiasco]

You can get a ba or bs in pol sci

let me see your curriculum for a B.Sc in poli sci -- i cant think of another country that offers that. Seems like a bastardization of the sciences.

 

[Der Eisbär]

let me see your curriculum for a B.Sc in poli sci -- i cant think of another country that offers that. Seems like a bastardization of the sciences.

You want my entire past and future course history? Lol I'm not typing all that out.

 

[kpt018]

I think most public schools utterly fail to teach students basic finance skills and imo should be mandatory. One example every class should cover is the decision to go to college, the costs/debt associated, earnings potential of various degrees and what this all means for paying off the debt. I think this would solve the problems in the OP. Sure, Yale will cost you $200k so you better be prepared to pay it off (and if you choose the right career it will).

The class should also cover how interest on credit cards are calculated, how to balance a checkbook, basic investment decisions, etc. but now I'm just ranting.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

You want my entire past and future course history? Lol I'm not typing all that out.

it should be posted on your faculties page -- cut and paste.

 

[Der Eisbär]

it should be posted on your faculties page -- cut and paste.

Course Number and Title Credits
ENGL 101 Introduction to College Writing 3
ENGL 102 Intro to College Writing and Research 3
UF 100 Intellectual Foundations 3
UF 200 Civic and Ethical Foundations 3
DLM Mathematics 3-4
DLN Natural, Physical, & Applied Sciences course with lab 4
DLN Natural, Physical, and Applied Sciences course in a second field 3-4
DLV Visual and Performing Arts 3
DLL Literature and Humanities 3-4
DLS POLS 101 American National Government 3
DLS Social Sciences course in a second field 3
POLS 200 Introduction to Politics 3
POLS 298 Introduction to Political Inquiry 3
POLS 398 Advanced Political Science Methods 3
FF POLS 499 Capstone Research Seminar 3
A student must take two (2) of the following courses:
CID POLS 300 American Political Institutions and Behavior
CID POLS 305 Comparative Politics: Theories, Methods, and Political Processes
CID POLS 306 International Relations: Actors, Interactions, and Methods
CID POLS 315 Political Philosophy 6
(A student may use no more than three (3) credits of POLS 493 and three (3) credits of POLS 494.) 9

American Government and Public Policy EmphasisCourse Number and TitleCredits
POLS 400 Women and Politics
POLS 401 Political Parties and Interest Groups
POLS 402 Campaigns and Elections
POLS 403 Introduction to Public Administration
POLS 404 Urban Politics
POLS 405 American Chief Executive
POLS 406 Legislative Behavior
POLS 407 American Policy Process
POLS 409 Environmental Politics
POLS 410 Public Finance
POLS 412 Ethics in Public Policy
POLS 413 Organizational Theory and Bureaucratic Structure
POLS 414 Comparative State Politics
POLS 415 Seminar in American Political Institutions
POLS 416 Seminar in American Political Behavior
POLS 417 Political Psychology
POLS 418 Public Opinion
POLS 419 Political Communication
POLS 440 American Political Thought
POLS 446 Constitutional Law
POLS 447 Civil Liberties
POLS 448 Women and the Law
POLS 449 Law, Politics, and Society12Upper-division electives to total 40 credits7Electives to total 120 credits37-40Total120

 

[Der Eisbär]

I think most public schools utterly fail to teach students basic finance skills and imo should be mandatory. One example every class should cover is the decision to go to college, the costs/debt associated, earnings potential of various degrees and what this all means for paying off the debt. I think this would solve the problems in the OP. Sure, Yale will cost you $200k so you better be prepared to pay it off (and if you choose the right career it will).

The class should also cover how interest on credit cards are calculated, how to balance a checkbook, basic investment decisions, etc. but now I'm just ranting.

I took a course on building wealth that taught a lot of this stuff and the quantitative reasoning course im in now (math 123) teaches some of this stuff. Both should be mandatory courses.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Course Number and Title Credits
ENGL 101 Introduction to College Writing 3
ENGL 102 Intro to College Writing and Research 3
UF 100 Intellectual Foundations 3
UF 200 Civic and Ethical Foundations 3
DLM Mathematics 3-4
DLN Natural, Physical, & Applied Sciences course with lab 4
DLN Natural, Physical, and Applied Sciences course in a second field 3-4
DLV Visual and Performing Arts 3
DLL Literature and Humanities 3-4
DLS POLS 101 American National Government 3
DLS Social Sciences course in a second field 3
POLS 200 Introduction to Politics 3
POLS 298 Introduction to Political Inquiry 3
POLS 398 Advanced Political Science Methods 3
FF POLS 499 Capstone Research Seminar 3
A student must take two (2) of the following courses:
CID POLS 300 American Political Institutions and Behavior
CID POLS 305 Comparative Politics: Theories, Methods, and Political Processes
CID POLS 306 International Relations: Actors, Interactions, and Methods
CID POLS 315 Political Philosophy 6
(A student may use no more than three (3) credits of POLS 493 and three (3) credits of POLS 494.) 9

American Government and Public Policy EmphasisCourse Number and TitleCredits
POLS 400 Women and Politics
POLS 401 Political Parties and Interest Groups
POLS 402 Campaigns and Elections
POLS 403 Introduction to Public Administration
POLS 404 Urban Politics
POLS 405 American Chief Executive
POLS 406 Legislative Behavior
POLS 407 American Policy Process
POLS 409 Environmental Politics
POLS 410 Public Finance
POLS 412 Ethics in Public Policy
POLS 413 Organizational Theory and Bureaucratic Structure
POLS 414 Comparative State Politics
POLS 415 Seminar in American Political Institutions
POLS 416 Seminar in American Political Behavior
POLS 417 Political Psychology
POLS 418 Public Opinion
POLS 419 Political Communication
POLS 440 American Political Thought
POLS 446 Constitutional Law
POLS 447 Civil Liberties
POLS 448 Women and the Law
POLS 449 Law, Politics, and Society12Upper-division electives to total 40 credits7Electives to total 120 credits37-40Total120

ah, so its the equivalent of a BA is in Canada.

 

[kpt018]

I took a course on building wealth that taught a lot of this stuff and the quantitative reasoning course im in now (math 123) teaches some of this stuff. Both should be mandatory courses.

Indeed, but in high school! Maybe they can pass on the complicated stuff that get's covered in college to make sure every student can understand it all and not get overwhelmed.

I'd say the goal of the class should be to teach real world skills that are immediately applicable and important and NOT to add a class where the grades are important as a test on the material.

 

[luckyshot]

I've said this many times, I have no problem with accountability, but there should be accountability on both sides... it's like what happened with the subprime mortgage bubble.

Should someone who makes $35k a year get $350k mortgage? Hell no. They shouldn't take that loan, and the bank shouldn't give it to them.

Same thing for someone going into $100k debt for a liberal arts degree.

I have more sympathy with the students, though, because they are 18 fucking years old; their brains are still up to a decade away from being completely developed, ffs.

The institutions, however, should know better.

 

[Der Eisbär]

ah, so its the equivalent of a BA is in Canada.

yeah, i dont understand the distinction

 

[ineverpost]

You can afford to live as long as the debt is manageable. There are a lot of people who would be on welfare or dead if they didn't get a degree. Now on fine arts or shit that won't get you hired anywhere, I'd agree

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Its 2018, any country that isnt meritocratic about education is just stupid.

Thats great that some loan shark mountebanks can get rich off of exploiting students who just want to better them selves but in the long run the country will suffer when every other country has a higher proportion of engineers, scientists, better teachers, programmers, strategists, etc. while Murka just has walmart and mcdonalds workers. I think we are seeing this already today.

Education pays off itself because a person makes more money, they spend more infusing the economy, and they spend more in taxes which benefits everyone. Ill never understand punishing people for education.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

I think most public schools utterly fail to teach students basic finance skills and imo should be mandatory. One example every class should cover is the decision to go to college, the costs/debt associated, earnings potential of various degrees and what this all means for paying off the debt. I think this would solve the problems in the OP. Sure, Yale will cost you $200k so you better be prepared to pay it off (and if you choose the right career it will).

The class should also cover how interest on credit cards are calculated, how to balance a checkbook, basic investment decisions, etc. but now I'm just ranting.

But if they did that people wouldn't be able to be exploited and some mountebanks might have to get real jobs!

 

[VivaRevolution]

It seems to me that when it comes to the conversation of college expenses and student loan debt, the question of responsibility gets totally left out.

If you're going into large amounts of debt to get a degree, does it not stand to reason that the degree you get as a result of that debt should be roughly equivalent in earnings potential? For example, by the time I graduate, I will only have about 15,000$ in debt. That's just for my poli sci BS w/ a minor in psych. With just that degree, I could expect to get a starting job in a major city making between 30-40k a year. With that kind of starting salary, 15k isn't a lot of debt. It could be paid off in a 2+ years depending on my level of discipline.

Now, I'm planning on going to law school afterwards, which I think is going to cost a total of $50,000. But the end result is a juris doctor, where I can start a career making good money. Again, with the earnings potential of that degree, the numbers work out and the debt burden isn't that great and can be paid off quickly.

If you're going to a more expensive school, shouldn't you be considering the amount of debt you're going into if you're just getting a bachelors with low earning potential like me? If you're going to Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, etc etc and getting a degree w/ low earnings potential, isn't that on you? Why is this part of this conversation totally left out?

My room mate was telling me about this girl she knew at Boise State, that had been in school for 8 years and was $200,000 in debt just to get her BA. What, in the fuck? That is totally and completely irresponsible, and you deserve what's coming to you. I know that is an anecdote, but I hear these stories quite often.

Why do we allow federal loans for degrees that can't pay back the debt?

If that was a car, the consumer would be protected by lemon laws.

 

[Karasu-Hanta]

100% agree. Make the loans interest free.

I'm pretty sure in Aus student loans are interest free, But we have right wingers in power at the moment who want to follow the U.S. system

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Higher education shouldn't be free but it should be heavily subsidized.

Students leaving college without a mortgage on their backs would be better for every single sector of our country and of course the economy.


But hey, maybe it's better students borrow money at high interest rates for education when the banks basically get the money for free.

 

[tdluxon]

It seems to me that when it comes to the conversation of college expenses and student loan debt, the question of responsibility gets totally left out.

If you're going into large amounts of debt to get a degree, does it not stand to reason that the degree you get as a result of that debt should be roughly equivalent in earnings potential? For example, by the time I graduate, I will only have about 15,000$ in debt. That's just for my poli sci BS w/ a minor in psych. With just that degree, I could expect to get a starting job in a major city making between 30-40k a year. With that kind of starting salary, 15k isn't a lot of debt. It could be paid off in a 2+ years depending on my level of discipline.

Now, I'm planning on going to law school afterwards, which I think is going to cost a total of $50,000. But the end result is a juris doctor, where I can start a career making good money. Again, with the earnings potential of that degree, the numbers work out and the debt burden isn't that great and can be paid off quickly.

If you're going to a more expensive school, shouldn't you be considering the amount of debt you're going into if you're just getting a bachelors with low earning potential like me? If you're going to Harvard, Yale, Notre Dame, etc etc and getting a degree w/ low earnings potential, isn't that on you? Why is this part of this conversation totally left out?

My room mate was telling me about this girl she knew at Boise State, that had been in school for 8 years and was $200,000 in debt just to get her BA. What, in the fuck? That is totally and completely irresponsible, and you deserve what's coming to you. I know that is an anecdote, but I hear these stories quite often.

Law school costs a lot more than $50k

 

[Fluffernutter]

Find a job that helps you save.

No, I didn't say find a job that pays you a lot of money.

I graduated with the same degree as the TS.

Taught at a boarding school right after graduation.

My housing and meals were provided. Plus, I bought a cheaper used car on craigslist and maintained it for years.

Even though I made a smaller salary than many in my graduating class, I was able to pay off my loans quicker than my roommates because I simply had less costs than they did.

 

[jamel]

I think it is wrong that highschool does not provide a type of class revolving around financial responsibility, shit is kinda predatory when you look at the big picture...

 

[Prutfis]

If only there were countries one could look at where higher education is tax funded and students don´t finish their degrees with massive debt. If only.