Hypocritical celebs, liberal politicians, Bloomberg, Schumer, Clintons, Obama

[sub_thug]

I'm all for all the training you can get. However per the 2nd it should be free to any citizen that wants it.

Hell they could even require a short term in the state guard to get the training and I would not have a problem with it.

If you pay for it yourself it gets expensive very fast when you get beyond basics.

Luckily most of what I got was paid for by others but I knew what it cost.

I'm not talking about trying to put up hurdles. I'm talking about passing them one time. You get one honest-to-god good background check, and then, buy whatever you want. Pass the test, and you can carry whatever pistol you want, buy any SA firearm, and be good to go. No restrictions on person to person sales, and no more silly laws about magazine capacity or tactical pistol grips on a rifle.

 

[Throwin Bombs]

Like, I'm no expert marksman by any means but I've been at least shooting BB guns or a .22 lever action since I was like 10 and have shitty eyesight without my glasses/contacts.

I can at least get everything inside/near the 10 ring from 50-100 yards out as long as I have the rifle sighted in properly then I hear from LEO friends how some dude's miss the silhouette entirely on a couple shots during pistol quals at like 25 meters.

Here's what I will say on that, 25 yards with a handgun is a difficult shot. A rifle is a totally different story especially small caliber with really no recoil. Also consider are you standing or prone. I agree there are officers that I would not trust to take a shot but don't think that without some level of training that shooters will be destroying a LEO qualification.

 

[Higus]

Do you have any idea what anything above basic training cost?

You an get into the thousands very fast.

If you are talking a basic course you are right but that does little but some legal stuff and very basic shooting.

When you get to shoot don't shoot and other courses the cost adds up quick.

Why should someone be granted a permit to do something beyond basic operation without demonstrating that they are capable of it doing it legally and safely? It's like saying pilot school is expensive, and thus it is restrictive to the lower socioeconomic classes. No shit. That doesn't mean that we should allow untrained pilots in the air for the sake of equality.

 

[sub_thug]

I like the idea of a firearms license. But a lot of people believe that it infringes too much on their 2A right.

Like I said, I am a gun owner. I would be more than happy to take a course, pass a test, and earn a license to prove that I am going to be a responsible gun owner.

I think that it would weed out some of the idiots who buy guns on a whim, and I think it would end up reducing the number of guns on the black market eventually.

I think people don't like it because it's an additional requirement. What I am talking about is a replacement system. Get your license, and you can instantly concealed carry in all 50 states. No more silly rules about mag capacity, what constitutes an assault weapon, trying to abolish gun shows or person to person sales, gun databases, or stuff that we all know doesn't really matter. I think that's a very fair compromise.

 

[Gregolian]

Do you have any idea what anything above basic training cost?

You an get into the thousands very fast.

If you are talking a basic course you are right but that does little but some legal stuff and very basic shooting.

When you get to shoot don't shoot and other courses the cost adds up quick.

Some examples of the training schools I'd go to:
Costa Ludas basic handgun course: 3 days in Wyoming. $995. Includes staying at a cabin he rents out on this lake in his town and dinners but the ammo and lunch on the training days you are responsible for. This is where you stay:
http://starvalleylodge.com/

Sentinel Concepts (Essential Handgun): $425 but you generally have to travel as their training area (where they travel to train) is somewhat limited

Sheepdog Response (Tim Kennedy's program, say what you will about a fighter but learning to shoot from a Green Beret? I'm down): He only has one course but is divided between civilian, LEO, and military "leanings"/focus. The civie one is $899 and he is only really in AZ, OK, and TX

Sage Dynamics: 2 days at $400 for basic handgun.

On top of the costs of the courses generally you have to supply around 2000 rounds yourself for the course.....

 

[oldshadow]

I'm not talking about trying to put up hurdles. I'm talking about passing them one time. You get one honest-to-god good background check, and then, buy whatever you want. Pass the test, and you can carry whatever pistol you want, buy any SA firearm, and be good to go. No restrictions on person to person sales, and no more silly laws about magazine capacity or tactical pistol grips on a rifle.

I agree but I think everyone with the ability to legally buy a gun should get free training provided by the state in exchange for being part of the state militia.

 

[Gregolian]

I think people don't like it because it's an additional requirement. What I am talking about is a replacement system. Get your license, and you can instantly concealed carry in all 50 states. No more silly rules about mag capacity, what constitutes an assault weapon, trying to abolish gun shows or person to person sales, gun databases, or stuff that we all know doesn't really matter. I think that's a very fair compromise.

CA, NY, and MASS will never go along with this.

 

[Gregolian]

Here's what I will say on that, 25 yards with a handgun is a difficult shot. A rifle is a totally different story especially small caliber with really no recoil. Also consider are you standing or prone. I agree there are officers that I would not trust to take a shot but don't think that without some level of training that shooters will be destroying a LEO qualification.

I'll give you that but you'd think cops should be able to get everything within at least the 6 ring and not just completely miss the silhouette.

 

[oldshadow]

Why should someone be granted a permit to do something beyond basic operation without demonstrating that they are capable of it doing it legally and safely? It's like saying pilot school is expensive, and thus it is restrictive to the lower socioeconomic classes. No shit. That doesn't mean that we should allow untrained pilots in the air for the sake of equality.

Because being a pilot is not a right and owning a fire arm is.

 

[nac386]

When I go shooting I go to an old gravel pit and not an actual range. Why? There are only two ranges in my county... one is county run and you can't police your own targets and the other is private and is expensive to join.

So, I was there with my friend from Utah that was out for vacation and we were practicing drawing from a holster, presenting, shooting two shots, and re-holstering. Nothing fast but the idea to build repetition and throwing in some of those purple snap caps to simulate dud rounds/failures.

While we were there two dudes showed up in fucking tracksuits with an AK47 new in box (I shit you not). Standing not more than 10 feet away from their cardboard box with a sticker bullseye on it and were blasting away for like 15 minutes. Evidently they were missing and then we hear one of them go "I FINALLY HIT IT". They proceeded to pack up and then drive off.

Will never forget what my buddy said "Goddamn... that was A. fucking pathetic and B. fucking creepy"

Yeah, there seems to be a group of people that buy guns because they think it's cool in some way, and many of them get tired of owning the guns pretty quickly. They realize that it is expensive to join a gun club, it is expensive to afford the ammunition, and that they don't really understand how to clean them or care for them properly, or are too lazy to do so.

 

[sub_thug]

I agree but I think everyone with the ability to legally buy a gun should get free training provided by the state in exchange for being part of the state militia.

That ends up becoming compulsory military service in the National Guard, and I'm not thrilled by that idea. I honestly don't want some of those people serving next to me, and many can't for health reasons.

 

[Gregolian]

Yeah, there seems to be a group of people that buy guns because they think it's cool in some way, and many of them get tired of owning the guns pretty quickly. They realize that it is expensive to join a gun club, it is expensive to afford the ammunition, and that they don't really understand how to clean them or care for them properly, or are too lazy to do so.

I'll be honest, I clean my bolt guns like I have OCD but my AR... not as OCD about since I saw this:


I drip some solvent down the gas tube and throw lube on the BCG and usually call it good. I realize it's kinda cutting corners but if my buddies that are active duty/were active duty have M4s that can survive in the sand for weeks between cleanings I think my AR can go a month or two after only 50-100 rounds at most per time out.

 

[sub_thug]

CA, NY, and MASS will never go along with this.

Then I would make it extremely clear that these states are perpetuating the current system that is apparently so abhorrent. Besides, this is the great thing about national laws: They trump whatever the state wants to do, and I think this might hold up in the Courts. Basically, what I am saying is that I don't give a fuck what those states think if the other 47 are on board.

 

[Higus]

Because being a pilot is not a right and owning a fire arm is.

Now you're just playing with words. Who is stopping you from owning a gun?

 

[Gregolian]

Then I would make it extremely clear that these states are perpetuating the current system that is apparently so abhorrent. Besides, this is the great thing about national laws: They trump whatever the state wants to do, and I think this might hold up in the Courts. Basically, what I am saying is that I don't give a fuck what those states think if the other 47 are on board.

 

[Gregolian]

Now you're just playing with words. Who is stopping you from owning a gun?

From finishing my current project? Not getting the goddamn upper receiver that my friend supposedly shipped to me 2 months ago now.

 

[Throwin Bombs]

I'll give you that but you'd think cops should be able to get everything within at least the 6 ring and not just completely miss the silhouette.

I hear ya and wish it was true but unless officers shoot on their own dime year round or are involved in a specialty that allows additional firearms training then a single box of ammo is all that is provided.

Part of it too and why it surprises is you is the expectations for law enforcement and what the average officer is capable of are largely overestimated. Its a double edged sword for law enforcement as it can prevents some conflicts but also holds us to standards that are not humanly possible.

 

[oldshadow]

That ends up becoming compulsory military service in the National Guard, and I'm not thrilled by that idea. I honestly don't want some of those people serving next to me, and many can't for health reasons.

The state unorganized militia is what I'm talking about.

You get your training and some continued training and service when called up is on a voluntary basics

The local and or the state government could then ask for trained volunteers for help in times of need.

 

[nac386]

I think people don't like it because it's an additional requirement. What I am talking about is a replacement system. Get your license, and you can instantly concealed carry in all 50 states. No more silly rules about mag capacity, what constitutes an assault weapon, trying to abolish gun shows or person to person sales, gun databases, or stuff that we all know doesn't really matter. I think that's a very fair compromise.

The license would have to be very hard to get if it not only allowed you to purchase any firearm, but also to conceal carry. A lot of people simply should not be allowed to conceal carry, that requires an enormous amount of responsibility and restraint. So the test would have to weed a lot of people out.

So if you tie concealed carry with normal gun ownership, a lot of people simply won't be able to own a gun. That would never fly in this country, a lot of people would freak out, including the NRA.

Between 300,000- 600,000 guns are stolen every year. Think about that. People just are not very responsible.

 

[sub_thug]

The state unorganized militia is what I'm talking about.

You get your training and some continued training and service when called up is on a voluntary basics

The local and or the state government could then ask for trained volunteers for help in times of need.

Who trains these people? To what standard? To what end? Who pays for all of this? What you're honestly talking about is establishing a National Guard, and that's already been done.