HW top 10 (2005) vs HW top 10 (2017)?

[mmacasualviewer]

The Machida & Hunt 2005 is BS.

Mark Hunt fought Wandy Decision, Cro Cop Decision & some Japanese fighters in that era.

Then when he started twice per year he got beaten by everyone even Mousasi.

I didn't know Hunt's losing streak was this shit.



5–7 Sean McCorkle Submission (straight armbar) UFC 119 25 September 2010 1 1:03 Indianapolis, Indiana, United States

Loss 5–6 Gegard Mousasi Submission (straight armbar) DREAM 9 26 May 2009 1 1:20 Yokohama, Japan DREAM Super Hulk Grand Prix Quarterfinal.

Loss 5–5 Melvin Manhoef KO (punches) Dynamite!! 2008 31 December 2008 1 0:18 Saitama, Japan

Loss 5–4 Alistair Overeem Submission (americana) DREAM 5: Lightweight Grand Prix 2008 Final Round 21 July 2008 1 1:11 Osaka, Japan

Loss 5–3 Fedor Emelianenko Submission (kimura) PRIDE Shockwave 2006 31 December 2006 1 8:16 Saitama, Japan For the PRIDE Heavyweight Championship.

Loss 5–2 Josh Barnett Submission (kimura) PRIDE Critical Countdown Absolute 1 July 2006 1 2:02 Saitama, Japan PRIDE Openweight Grand Prix Quarterfinal.

Win 5–1 Tsuyoshi Kohsaka TKO (punches) PRIDE Total Elimination Absolute 5 May 2006 2 4:15 Osaka, Japan PRIDE Openweight Grand Prix Opening Round.

Win 4–1 Yosuke Nishijima KO (punch) PRIDE 31 26 February 2006 3 1:18 Saitama, Japan

Win 3–1 Mirko Filipović Decision (split) PRIDE Shockwave 2005 31 December 2005 3 5:00 Saitama, Japan

Win 2–1 Wanderlei Silva Decision (split) PRIDE Shockwave 2004 31 December 2004 3 5:00 Saitama, Japan

 

[carelessandheem]

young reem isn't econoreem, would be ended by JDS. modern werdum, cain, jds and stipe can beat the entire list. econoreem has an excellent chance against most of them as well.

really the question is who is the weakest 2017 HW who could beat the entire 2005. I think that depends on their skills since 2005 crocop, hunt, sergei, fedor and barnett are vastly different challenges. modern outfighting and clinch fighting can give edges for the best, but is modern hunt smart enough, even with his slower pace and worse chin to beat them all down?

1. Stipe Miocic (34) 1
2. Fabricio Werdum (39) 1
3. Alistair Overeem (36) 1
4. Cain Velasquez (34) 1
5. Junior Dos Santos (33) 1
6. Josh Barnett (39) 2
7. Mark Hunt (43) 3
8. Derrick Lewis (32) 2
9. Ben Rothwell (35) 2
10. Francis Ngganou (30) 2

 

[Magnum1978]

Stipe, prime Cain and prime JDS are the only guys I think would challenge Fedor/CC/Nog in their primes

The rest are toss ups. Pride 05 division was very good with athletically prime fighters

Its too difficult to tell as time goes on however as the sport has diverged away from the more dangerous and dynamic Pride rules to the more vanilla and uniform Unified system. Elbow/cage grinding and heavy control from top position are something pride fighters of old would struggle with, conversely if you magically took the HW's of now into the ring, the rules and scoring would well give the Pride fighters the edge, particularly Fedor and CC who were excellent in the ring, harder to take down there, and less likely to cut up without having elbows. Failing a takedown to have a soccer kick go through your dome made timing and executing a takedown imperative which is another thing to adapt to. Cro Cop in particular destroyed shooting wreslters for this very reason

Its fun to hypothesize, but this is all just opinion

 

[Melas Chasma]

no he didnt

You admitted Overeem dropped Stipe and had him rocked. That means Stipe almost lost to him. Especially when we are talking about HW division.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

I love how the 'new breed' of heavyweights are all old cunts warming up for retirement.

Where 2005 they were young lions stomping each others heads in.

 

[Towerworld]

Lmao he almost lost to Overeem.

Fedor was beaten to a pulp by kevin rogers and #200 LHW Maldonodo.
2017 Overeem destroys every 2005 HW.

 

[OmegaRugal]

How the hell do you figure he almost lost to Overeem if he KOed him in the FIRST round. You must be an angry Fedor fanboy due to my statement. So your stupid came out

He fought and beat Overeem.

Love Fedor but Fedor ran from Overeem.

 

[Towerworld]

Stipe, prime Cain and prime JDS are the only guys I think would challenge Fedor/CC/Nog in their primes

The rest are toss ups. Pride 05 division was very good with athletically prime fighters

Its too difficult to tell as time goes on however as the sport has diverged away from the more dangerous and dynamic Pride rules to the more vanilla and uniform Unified system. Elbow/cage grinding and heavy control from top position are something pride fighters of old would struggle with, conversely if you magically took the HW's of now into the ring, the rules and scoring would well give the Pride fighters the edge, particularly Fedor and CC who were excellent in the ring, harder to take down there, and less likely to cut up without having elbows. Failing a takedown to have a soccer kick go through your dome made timing and executing a takedown imperative which is another thing to adapt to. Cro Cop in particular destroyed shooting wreslters for this very reason

Its fun to hypothesize, but this is all just opinion

Yes basically when you took the cheating away from Cro cop and others they were exposed as bums.
Machida was dominated by MW Gatekeepers, Fedor was demolished by punching bag MW hendo. Nog was submitted without any resistance whatsoever by Mir. Cro cop was outstruck and destroyed in every way by UFC Reject Gabriel Gonzaga.

 

[Bjjpitbull8]

Metaphor for 2005 v 2017

2017 top guy vs 6 11 can

2005 top guy 5 11 230 vs 7 3 360
Enuff said. Struve would be murdered by every name on the pride list.

 

[tehMoose]

2005 >>>>>>>> 2017

 

[MuyThaiElbows]

Proof why Fedor is still HW goat. I'm no fan boy but you can't deny Fedor beating the best at their best. I wish he never ducked UFC or SF Reem but his managment was horrible so what can you do?

I'd love to see Fedor vs a young Cain or JDS.

 

[ThinkBig500]

Hunt and Barnett have stuck around in the top 10 for more than a decade. Amazing

 

[VVarhead]

Miocic, Cain and Werdum and maybe Lewis could compete with 2005, the others not so much.

2005 wins overall.

 

[Benjamin Burton]

hw and lhw were both better back then

 

[LordMayorMuffSniff]

Whoever is the HW GOAT is the GOAT.

 

[synyster]

the fact that Hunt is and a few others are still ranked should say a lot... I know there are people here that believe Hunt is better at 40 then he was at 30 lol.. "he didnt learn ground game till later" yaya w/e lol

 

[StraightleftKO]

Fedor was beaten to a pulp by kevin rogers and #200 LHW Maldonodo.
2017 Overeem destroys every 2005 HW.

 

[leatherneck]

wow.

weird thread.

im a big Pride guy, and a big Stipe fan, but ive never run across a Stipe-superfan like @Final Say before.

as always, @Taric is like to a Pride thread what dimspace is to a PED thread-

great facts, shitty opinions. i can never tell when Taric is joking, so:

-no. Syliva has no game for Stipe. what Stipe has that Sylvia did not is: athletecism, lateral movement and a basic ground game. saying Sylvia wouls beat Stipe is a joke.

other than that, everything else Taric and others have said is largely correct-

- i really like Stipe, and already have him about #5 HW GOAT.
- his best form always loses to Prime Fedor and Prime JDS
- Big Nog wasnt that good
- Cain vs Stipe will be very telling, the loser will be underappreciated
- MMA hasnt evolved as muh as people pretend
- Rothwell beats 75% of both lists

 

[Final Say]

and you've been exposed by this post

Okay, 'basement dweller'

lol Fedor has a puncher's chance at Stipe and that's all. Skill for skill, stipe is better just about everywhere. The only place Fedor would have a slight advantage is submissions but he will never take Stipe down and never gain a positional advantage on the ground even if he did manage to take Stipe down

A lot of fedor's reputation is hype. He was a quiet killer for a long time. Now there are countless, nostalgic hype videos and documentaries which make him larger than life. That's what I was referring to in the post you quoted. He never faced competition like Stipe already has.

 

[moreorless87]

Okay, 'basement dweller'

lol Fedor has a puncher's chance at Stipe and that's all. Skill for skill, stipe is better just about everywhere. The only place Fedor would have a slight advantage is submissions but he will never take Stipe down and never gain a positional advantage on the ground even if he did manage to take Stipe down

A lot of fedor's reputation is hype. He was a quiet killer for a long time. Now there are countless, nostalgic hype videos and documentaries which make him larger than life. That's what I was referring to in the post you quoted. He never faced competition like Stipe already has.

Honestly the only negative about those videos for me is that he's remembered somewhat at the expense of the division as a whole back then that was incredibly entertaining to watch, and not just in a "I wonder who falls over first" fashion as we see today.

Stipe has power on a similar kind of level but everywhere else I think is highly questionable relative to Fedor, defensively he's been tagged and hurt by Struve, JDS and Overeem and generally is pretty upright with quite limited head movement. Wrestling wise he's decent but hasn't exactly shown it vs multiple opposition, only Hunt. Grappling wise you'd have to be mad to think he offers a similar level of sub threat and GnP wise as well his record is really only a gassed Hunt and a hurt Overeem.

Back in the day I think he'd be a relevant HW but I don't think he'd be at the top of the division, more a win some lose some guy vs the big names. Generally I think todays HW division would suffer a lot from questionable defence and cardio vs that of a decade ago. You look back then and it was actually possible for two guys with power to exchange for extended periods without a finish.