How would you respond to this speech about Islam?

[SummerStriker]

Christianity had a 600 year head start on Islam.

400 years ago, Christians were still killing people for witchcraft by the tens of thousands. They tired themselves out, not having found any real witchcraft.

The majority of Protestants still believe in the devil and witchcraft. I was personally accused of it for playing Dungeons and Dragons.

People are nuts.

Islam is becoming more liberal across most of the world, including the US and Iran. Only an idiot would try to get in the way of their whitewashing of their history. Their idea of what it means to be a good person is changing.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

Are they really though , do you have anything to back that assertion up with ? .

its easily searchable.

 

[trac209]

Christianity had a 600 year head start on Islam.

400 years ago, Christians were still killing people for witchcraft by the tens of thousands. They tired themselves out, not having found any real witchcraft.

The majority of Protestants still believe in the devil and witchcraft. I was personally accused of it for playing Dungeons and Dragons.

People are nuts.

Islam is becoming more liberal across most of the world, including the US and Iran. Only an idiot would try to get in the way of their whitewashing of their history. Their idea of what it means to be a good person is changing.

I can actually agree with your last paragraph. Most westernized Muslims are moving away from the old ways but since there are so many of them it would be nice for them to come out in droves as a whole and condemn the ones who aren’t. That doesn’t mean we should have open borders and let them flow in like water either. The ones that do so illegally aren’t the peace loving modern Muslims some speak of.

 

[fartJokes]

A far cry. I don't see the correlation.

But if you want to make one you will have to include all Abrahamic Religions. For example look at what the jews are doing in Palestine.

No, let's focus on the correlation that you don't see and you can tell me which of my points you object to.

1. Nazism and Islam are both ideologies.
2. Both supremacist ideologies.
3. Both totalitarian ideologies.

Which of these statements are you challenging?

 

[fartJokes]

Bit if an exaggeration, especially since you are talking about 1.8 billion people all with different skin colors, backgrounds, etc.

If all 1.8 billion people of different skin colors & backgrounds ALL smoke cigarettes, some more, some less, inevitably some of them will develop cancer from smoking.

The fact they don't ALL get cancer, doesn't negate the fact that smoking cigarettes causes cancer.

Likewise, Islam itself is the root cause of islamic terrorism. Not all muslims will become terrorists, but this doesn't change the fact that it is the ideology itself that creates terrorists.

Muslims are people. Islam is an ideology. Big difference. Ideologies can be very dangerous when they are bigoted, supremacist, and totalitarian in nature.

 

[fartJokes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler#Hitler_on_Islam

..." similarities between Luther's anti-Semitic writings and modern anti-Semitism are no coincidence, because they derived from a common history of Judenhass which can be traced to Haman's advice to Ahasuerus, although modern German anti-Semitism also has its roots in German nationalism.[221] Catholic historian José M. Sánchez argues that Hitler's anti-Semitism was explicitly rooted in Christianity.[222] Writers including Heschel and Toland, have drawn links between Hitler's Catholic background and his anti-Semitism.[223]".

He isn't very good at this, is he?

 

[splendica]

Because luckily, they are humans, they just chose to look away from what their books tells them to do. See there is a mayor difference between Christianity and Islam. Christians follow a hippy that lived over 2000 years ago, Islam follows a war general, rapist pedophile murdered, not much different from any other war lord of its time. The ot is a book full with violence, but since Christians have found the way around it, we could say that Christians.values should not at least create a death cult. On the other hand, the teachings and life of a war lord, well you will always have some nut jobs doing what terrorist are doing.

Basically the problem of Christianity, the inquisition, etc etc, (not the crusades, I believe the crusades were justified) come from Christians using religion as a mean of power, basically the problem were the Christians, not Christianity, with Islam the problem are not Muslims, but Islam it self, the problem comes from the core of the religion, the book.

Even the Inquisition numbers (as it took place over like 356 years) in yearly deaths by capital punishment are anywhere from 10 to 17 times LESS per year than current numbers coming out of Saudi Arabia regarding capital punishment (3,000 to 5,000 capital punishment convictions over the course of the Inquisition vs 154 capital punishment conviction in SA in 2016 alone, 158 in 2015 ). In this day and age.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Christianity had a 600 year head start on Islam.

400 years ago, Christians were still killing people for witchcraft by the tens of thousands. They tired themselves out, not having found any real witchcraft.

The majority of Protestants still believe in the devil and witchcraft. I was personally accused of it for playing Dungeons and Dragons.

People are nuts.

Islam is becoming more liberal across most of the world, including the US and Iran. Only an idiot would try to get in the way of their whitewashing of their history. Their idea of what it means to be a good person is changing.

Is not the same.

Let’s leave what humans did or do in the name of the religion, and focus on the core of the religion.

Christians follow a hippy.
Muslims a war lord.

The New Testament does not include any comand to go and behead people, slave kill rape whatever.

Koran and the Hadith is a enciclopedia of violence.

Yes the ot is a barbaric book, thing is Christians do not follow the ot, but the not.

Both are fairly tales, but there’s no way to deny that one is a way way more dangerous fairly tale.

 

[splendica]

Christianity had a 600 year head start on Islam.

400 years ago, Christians were still killing people for witchcraft by the tens of thousands. They tired themselves out, not having found any real witchcraft.

The majority of Protestants still believe in the devil and witchcraft. I was personally accused of it for playing Dungeons and Dragons.

People are nuts.

Islam is becoming more liberal across most of the world, including the US and Iran. Only an idiot would try to get in the way of their whitewashing of their history. Their idea of what it means to be a good person is changing.

Christians weren't killling people for witchcraft by the tens of thousands. As I mentioned in my other post, the Inquistions' numbers over 356 years were between 3000 and 5000 deaths over that time. That's anywhere from 8 to 15 per year as sanctioned by "the church."

 

[CauseImbetta]

If all 1.8 billion people of different skin colors & backgrounds ALL smoke cigarettes, some more, some less, inevitably some of them will develop cancer from smoking.

The fact they don't ALL get cancer, doesn't negate the fact that smoking cigarettes causes cancer.

Likewise, Islam itself is the root cause of islamic terrorism. Not all muslims will become terrorists, but this doesn't change the fact that it is the ideology itself that creates terrorists.

Muslims are people. Islam is an ideology. Big difference. Ideologies can be very dangerous when they are bigoted, supremacist, and totalitarian in nature.

Another exaggeration.

It's like saying all Jew are fanatic settlers with guns and bulldozers. Simply not true.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

it would be nice for them to come out in droves as a whole and condemn the ones who aren’t.

every time they do 2 things usually happen:

1. islamaphobes accuse them of being taqiyya rather than sincere
2. they become targets for the groups they protest against

so....i agree that it would be nice to see more often, but i can certainly understand why some just prefer to keep their heads down.

 

[platypus44]

As an atheist I find all religion abhorrent and hope it will be removed altogether for humans to progress. But I can't find a way to counter this speech on the defense of Islam. Easy, you think? Watch it then offer some ideas. I have to agree with everything this guy said (unfortunately).

1. The historical evidence for the claim that the Koran, as printed and distributed today, is actually the literal word of God is very weak.
2. Critical discussion of Islam, its historical basis, whether we really have the original Koran in its entirety, etc. is suppressed in most Muslim countries making it unlikely that the religion will evolve in any constructive direction,
3. It is very true that the Golden Age of Islam was a period of intellectual innovation, tolerance, and freedom of inquiry but it ended around 1300 as Islam moved to an inflexible philosophy and a long period of intellectual stagnation and there is no sign that such Golden Age will return.
4. On issues like - "what should be done to someone who seeks to leave Islam?" - a very high percentage of Muslims respond by saying he should be put to death.
5. The treatment of minority religions, including minority sects of Islam, in Muslim countries is atrocious.
6. While actual terrorists are a tiny proportion of Muslims, a disturbingly large proportion of Muslims support various propositions that could be viewed as "precursors" to terrorism (those seeking to leave Islam should be put to death, those insulting the prophet should be put to death, those questioning the authenticity of the Koran should be put to death, Muslim "land" or territory must be Muslim land forever and if necessary reconquered by force from infidels).
7. The Muslim doctrine that "revelation is closed" inherently limits scientific inquiry and leads to intolerance of other religions.
8. The doctrine that the Koran cannot be interpreted leads to inflexibility and rigidity.
9. The widespread advocacy of the backward Wahhabi version of Islam is definitely a major cause of terrorist activity.
10. Even assuming for the sake of argument the validity of the Koran, modern Islam has all sorts of practices and doctrines not rooted in the Koran but based on Arab tribal practices.

 

[SummerStriker]

Is not the same.

Let’s leave what humans did or do in the name of the religion, and focus on the core of the religion.

Christians follow a hippy.
Muslims a war lord.

The New Testament does not include any comand to go and behead people, slave kill rape whatever.

Koran and the Hadith is a enciclopedia of violence.

Yes the ot is a barbaric book, thing is Christians do not follow the ot, but the not.

Both are fairly tales, but there’s no way to deny that one is a way way more dangerous fairly tale.

The most dangerous aspect of Christianity is shared by Islam. They both believe in hell, a god that puts people in hell, and a single means of avoiding it - joining their cult.

If you believe that, it will always be moral to kill in order to spread the religion, because you are saving people from hell.

Furthermore, Christians, as shown in this thread, think of muslims as "others" which is what permitted western governments to kill and exile millions of them over the last 20 years. They would need thousands more 9-11s to set the scales equal with Christians.

 

[The ScorpioN]

every time they do 2 things usually happen:

1. islamaphobes accuse them of being taqiyya rather than sincere
2. they become targets for the groups they protest against

1. "islamaphobes" only accuse them of taqqiya when the message of the protest is not to reform the ideology that breeds extremism, but to obfuscate and guilt trip people who are wary of the said ideology. Like you just did.

2. You don't see the irony in this positive feedback loop?

community scared to reform their ideology -> breeds extremism -> extremists target reformers -> community scared to reform their ideology

The West can't reform them since it's "Islamophobic", Muslims can't reform them since they're scared.

I would rather they solve their reformation problems in their countries and not bring ancient conflicts to the West. What about you?

 

[The ScorpioN]

Another exaggeration.

It's like saying all Jew are fanatic settlers with guns and bulldozers. Simply not true.

Weren't you a Satanist?

Or did you graduate high school?

 

[dontsnitch]

The most dangerous aspect of Christianity is shared by Islam. They both believe in hell, a god that puts people in hell, and a single means of avoiding it - joining their cult.

If you believe that, it will always be moral to kill in order to spread the religion, because you are saving people from hell.

Furthermore, Christians, as shown in this thread, think of muslims as "others" which is what permitted western governments to kill and exile millions of them over the last 20 years. They would need thousands more 9-11s to set the scales equal with Christians.

While they both believe in hell, only in Islam do you see followers believe that by killing yourself while killing infidels that you get to heaven, i.e. that your slate is wiped clean. This is, imo, the most sinister aspect of the faith, in that believers are constantly reminded that there is a scale with their deeds being measured. Many of these suicide bombers are desperate, and not necessarily blood-thirsty as they are portrayed.

 

[fartJokes]

Another exaggeration.

It's like saying all Jew are fanatic settlers with guns and bulldozers. Simply not true.

What on earth are you talking about? I'm not trying to say the literal percentage of smokers who die from cancer (around 10%) is equivalent to that of muslims who join terror organizations. I'm merely highlighting the failed logic in your argument, quoted below.

Not true. Muslims are 1.8 billion people. The point was made of they all were violent the world would end. But they aren't. It's a tiny minority of Muslims.

The question being debated in the video was, I believe, "Is Islam a religion of peace?". First off, you conflate Muslims (people) with Islam (a set of beliefs/ideology). People are not ideas and ideas are not people. Second, you construct a strawman, implying that someone has asserted that "all muslims are violent. No one ever said that, so strawman goes up in flames. Third, my point, - it doesn't matter how many nominal, cafeteria muslims there are in the world. The example of Mohammed is clear, and these are the same horrific things ISIS does.

Doctrine X says to kill the infidel.
Person believes in doctrine X.
Person kills infidels.
Doctrine X is the cause.

Your argument that because "ALL muslims aren't violent means Islam doesn't compel muslims to violence" is nonsense and failed logic. It clearly does.

Thank you for your ill-informed post and not watching the op video, ass-whipe.

Did you know that the bible in all is more violent than the Quran? Don't belive me?: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...han-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

Here, you are attempting a good bit of "Whataboutism". Some people will struggle with this sophistry (not me). This is false equivalency. We don't have to compare books, that is irrelevant. If there were no Islamic terrorism or jihad violence, it wouldn't matter a damn bit what the Quran or Hadith say because it wouldn't matter and no one would care. But in real life, where the rubber meets the road, Islam and violence go hand-in-hand. I would condemn Christianity as "just as bad", if it actually were. Instead, I classify it as stupid, delusional, but less dangerous. Why? The simple fact that, for all it's faults, Christianity is not a totalitarian ideology, whereas Islam is. Blasphemy laws = speech crimes, Apostasty laws = mind crimes. Both these Orwellian thought crimes are punishable by DEATH. That's totalitarian on it's face. Every human who values freedom or human rights should oppose totalitarianism in ALL it's forms.

 

[trac209]

Op I was with you on the all religions are harmful etc. But I can’t seem to understand your ignorance on this and a flat out refusal to accept any argument against the videos message. From this I can only assume one thing and that you are not a true atheist as you state.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

The most dangerous aspect of Christianity is shared by Islam. They both believe in hell, a god that puts people in hell, and a single means of avoiding it - joining their cult.

If you believe that, it will always be moral to kill in order to spread the religion, because you are saving people from hell.

Furthermore, Christians, as shown in this thread, think of muslims as "others" which is what permitted western governments to kill and exile millions of them over the last 20 years. They would need thousands more 9-11s to set the scales equal with Christians.

the problem is that in no part christianity incentivates killing in the name of christ, totally the oppositve. Islam does, A LOT

Furthermore, Christians, as shown in this thread, think of muslims as "others" which is what permitted western governments to kill and exile millions of them over the last 20 years. They would need thousands more 9-11s to set the scales equal with Christians.

this is not true, islam was spread by sword and blood, so both are kind of equal.

Anyways, I repeat my statement, im not condoning what Christians have done in the past in the name of christ, the thing is that they have no biblical justification for such acts, on the other hand, Islamic fundamentalist did have justification, it is written on his holy book.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The West can't reform them since it's "Islamophobic", Muslims can't reform them since they're scared.

I would rather they solve their reformation problems in their countries and not bring ancient conflicts to the West. What about you?

It doesn't help that the West supports brutal regimes which suppress and persecute reformers and reformist ideas such as the ones in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.