How will you react when Trump attacks North Korea?

[SouthoftheAndes]

Content I suppose. If anyone needs to be taken out and forced regime change it is North Korea first and foremost.

North Korea is a dangerous evil regime that is more dangerous than Iran and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan combined.

North Korean military, and leadership infrastructure needs to be bombed to smithereens.

Ideally a U.S. led coalition with Chinese, Russian and obviously South Korean support.


Now obviously though South Korea should bear the greatest brunt of this war. If they want a reuinified Korean peninsula and a psycho crazy man to the North of them out of power they need to be willing to fight for it.


Not sure how South Koreans will feel about masses of North Koreans (their racial and a ethnic brethren) wanting refugee status in South Korea. But ideally the North Koreans wouldn't be rejected by their own ethnic family.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Where is the information from books and news from? Verified facts or third party hearsay?

This is tiresome. If you have something specific to say about conditions in North Korea, please do so. It would add to the conversation. If you think there are any books on North Korea that are either exceptionally deceptive or informative, please list them.

I will say that at least they are very conscientious about the environment:

 

[Egelo]

About fucking time.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

This is tiresome. If you have something specific to say about conditions in North Korea, please do so. It would add to the conversation. If you think there are any books on North Korea that are either exceptionally deceptive or informative, please list them.

I will say that at least they are very conscientious about the environment:

Pyongyang apparently has a nightlife though.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

https://www.bloombergquint.com/poli...k-on-u-s-talk-of-all-options-over-north-korea





North Korea has been in the news quite a bit lately, the focus has been on their (ongoing) human rights violations and the new White House's push to have China "reign in the North Korean weapons program"


Why so many stories these days?

Could we guess it's because war is imminent? Before the invasion of Iraq the Republican administration in of that era levied similar complaints about Saddam's human rights violations and weapons programs. If Russia is on-side and gives permission for North Korea to be taken out, the war would likely be a go. Perhaps the U.S will end it's economic sanctions against Russia and pull NATO back from Russia's borders in exchange for permission and support in a war against North Korea.

And once Korea is attacked... well.

Spoiler

N. Korea is very likely a nuclear power. That doesn't mean they have a delivery system capable of hitting the US but all they'd need to hit South Korea is a damn catapult.

As always, the major stopping point here is how important South Korea is for the global economy, they are a serious player and could be hit by conventional weapons and destroyed in the case of any preemptive attack. The U.S would have to find a way to clear out all of North Korea's weapons delivery capabilities in the first few minutes of any assault.

Another issue is China's potential response. China has leveraged their relationship with North Korea for a long time, holding them on a short leash when the US is acting "fairly" and loosening the leash when they want to saber rattle and threaten the U.S.'s pacific interests. Without North Korea, China will have lost an important ally and key chess piece in their backyard.

However, even if all goes well and South Korea escapes completely unscathed, this all might prove to be a net-negative for the US's geo-strategic position in Asia. As long as North Korea, being the monstrous nation it is, is a threat to South Korea, the South Korean people and government will welcome the presence of US troops. Once North Korea is dealt with, US propaganda will have to turn to China as the ostensible threat that U.S. military power is protecting Korea from. But China is not North Korea. China could wage a soft-power diplomatic propaganda campaign to try and peacefully oust the US military from a newly unified Korea. They would have quite a few new Korean citizens who had been bombed by the U.S. to use as a propaganda tool and surely, if they were granted a vote, would vote against any political party percived to be allied with the United States. In the short term China would lose North Korea but then, in the long term, would enter the race to gain influence and eventually a significant amount of control over the whole of Korea. One generation after this war, Korea could hold a free elections and their system disrupted, chaotic, open to Chinese influence, might forget about China as the boogyman the U.S. is necessary to fight. If the U.S. loses Korea, next up on the docket is Japan.

The domestic consequences in the US are fairly predictable. The threat of retaliation alone would be enough to restrict rights and liberties in the USA. North Korea could retaliate via terrorism, submarine strike (not bloody likely) or in any other number of ways. You can be sure the media will encourage U.S. citizens to think about every possible way their lives might be threatened. With the support of congress, the senate and perhaps even average people, we could see an even greater enhancement of the surveillance state and further loss of civil liberties, as well as more power being vested in the hands of the executive branch.

We should also end sanctions on Russia anyways and recognize Crimea. If we do that and let Russia keep its base in Syria and carve put an Alawite state in Syria, they (Russia) will give up Iran.


Russian support for Iran is not genuine they drop Iran once we play nice and stop pushing NATO against their borders. Let Russia dominate the former FSU they aren't a threat.

 

[Banchan]

This is tiresome. If you have something specific to say about conditions in North Korea, please do so. It would add to the conversation. If you think there are any books on North Korea that are either exceptionally deceptive or informative, please list them.

I will say that at least they are very conscientious about the environment:

I read that they still have tigers.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I read that they still have tigers.

And cannibals! How quaint and picturesque.

Being pro North Korea is to be anti-human.

 

[sangreporsangre]

 

[Banchan]

And cannibals! How quaint and picturesque.

Being pro North Korea is to be anti-human.

Im not pro north korea, i think my stance has been the opposite.

I would argue the cannibal stories by defectors which have been debunked time and time again is an example of third party hearsay.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Im not pro north korea, i think my stance has been the opposite.

I would argue the cannibal stories by defectors which have been debunked time and time again is an example of third party hearsay.

Please link to such a debunking.

 

[Banchan]

Please link to such a debunking.

Even in your language there are some people who realize westerners are too gullible about the stories they hear regarding north korea


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/01/true-or-false-kooky-north-korea-stories


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/07/north-korea-defectors-drop

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Even in your language there are some people who realize westerners are too gullible about the stories they hear regarding north korea


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/01/true-or-false-kooky-north-korea-stories


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/07/north-korea-defectors-drop

Interesting. Apparently reports that the North Koreans melt political prisoners in molten iron, which I had never heard, are untrue. However, the Guardian has not been remiss at all in reporting much more credible reports of North Korean atrocities, like this one about the 2014 UN report: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/17/north-korea-human-rights-abuses-united-nations

Key quotes "The UN's commission on human rights in North Korea, which gathered evidence for almost a year, including often harrowing testimony at public hearings worldwide, said there was compelling evidence of torture, execution and arbitrary imprisonment, deliberate starvation and an almost complete lack of free thought and belief."

"It says: "These are not mere excesses of the state: they are essential components of a political system that has moved far from the ideals on which it claims to be founded. The gravity, scale and nature of these violations reveal a state that does not have any parallel in the contemporary world."

"Other sections of the report cover abuses such as the lack of food. While natural disasters were in part to blame for a famine that killed huge numbers in the 1990s, the report notes that the North Korean state has "used food as a means of control over the population". "

 

[Supereem]

As I mentioned in the other thread, the problem is that there is a huge artillery army dug into the side of a mountain 50km away from central Seoul. Experts have deemed this massive force "nuke proof" and basically nothing can be done to prevent them from raining hell down on Seoul. Some experts have predicted this force could level Seoul in only 2 hours. Furthermore they could lob nukes into Seoul from this location. Even if we are wrong about this, is it worth the risk?

So ofcourse the US could destroy NK in a week, but Seoul would go down with them. As a minimum Seoul would have to be abandoned first.

As strange as this sounds, the best way to deal with NK is to "cut a deal" (Trump reference not intended) and force their leadership to open up the country in exchange for their lives. They know more than anyone they won't survive a US assault, even in a fantasy scenario that includes China getting involved. Let them live in exile in China and die happy.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I would think Iran would be the number one choice for invasion with this administration.

I hope none of this happens

Scary shit I just cant immagine another Korean War. Even if this will just be a conventional tactics War it is still scary shit.

 

[Banchan]

Interesting. Apparently reports that the North Koreans melt political prisoners in molten iron, which I had never heard, are untrue. However, the Guardian has not been remiss at all in reporting much more credible reports of North Korean atrocities, like this one about the 2014 UN report: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/17/north-korea-human-rights-abuses-united-nations

Key quotes "The UN's commission on human rights in North Korea, which gathered evidence for almost a year, including often harrowing testimony at public hearings worldwide, said there was compelling evidence of torture, execution and arbitrary imprisonment, deliberate starvation and an almost complete lack of free thought and belief."

"It says: "These are not mere excesses of the state: they are essential components of a political system that has moved far from the ideals on which it claims to be founded. The gravity, scale and nature of these violations reveal a state that does not have any parallel in the contemporary world."

"Other sections of the report cover abuses such as the lack of food. While natural disasters were in part to blame for a famine that killed huge numbers in the 1990s, the report notes that the North Korean state has "used food as a means of control over the population". "

Citation - "defector"

 

[ShinkanPo]

I read that they still have tigers.

They haven't eaten them yet?

 

[Lanx]

you know whose most scared with a war with NKorea? is SKorea. They ain't scared of the fighting, they've trained for that, plus they'll have America backing them up.

Nope, they're afraid of when NKorea loses and SKorea will have to integrate and absorb NKorea, which would destroy their economy.

It'd be like if America made Mexico the 51st state, instant 3rd world status.

 

[1pedestrian]

A war with North Korea would actually be fruitful.

Based on what? At least Iraq has oil...

Asians adapt very quickly to westernization,

I don't live there and could not care less if they're westernized or not.

the middle east is too complicated becsuse its a society heavily influenced by religion not order and theyre already very resentful of american interferance.

at least the ME is rich in natural gas, oil and other resources. NK is resource-poor. And no one likes foreign invasion, this kind of resentment is not exclusive to the Middle East. North Koreans will fanatically retaliate and kill as many people as possible.

 

[TheGreatA]

I would think that Trump possesses enough natural instincts to not have the U.S. bogged down in North Korea throughout his presidency. He said he wanted to focus on domestic issues, and I have no reason not to believe him so far.

Trump's boasting and threatening is simply a change in foreign policy. The United States usually tries to ignore North Korea's threats, but with a new, unpredictable leader who's reaching for his limits, this might not be the best strategy. It may be that the young Kim would eventually become emboldened and attempt to act, in hopes that there will not be a response, if the United States doesn't have a strict stance against his posturing.

He needs to be reminded that North Korea has no chance of survival in a direct military confrontation with the United States. Once Kim understands his position, he can be allowed to go on with his empty gestures.

 

[Kframe]

Even in your language there are some people who realize westerners are too gullible about the stories they hear regarding north korea


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rean-defector-testimonies-so-often-fall-apart


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/01/true-or-false-kooky-north-korea-stories


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/07/north-korea-defectors-drop

Jesus are you the North Korean version of Seiger? How could you possibly defend them, or even try to abrograte any of the things we hear about them.. Fucking NK is worse then radical Islam.