How to learn MT and without losing your boxing skills?

[fluffball]

Coming from a guy who has bobbed and weaved into a few roundhouses in my day, ya... be careful.

Also "be like water". You're not going to lose your boxing just because you train in a different style. They will compliment each other.

 

[j123]

Yeah, Cain Velasquez comes to mind immediately as a fighter who keeps his head low in order to drive it up... Marcos Maidana also usesdit to cheat and sneakily headbutt people. It has plenty of uses!

teh streetz

 

[Fire of Youth]

@Fire of Youth

1)

High kicks: I don't understand why they would be "easier to see, faster to react to, easier to defend". You make the kick easier by not having it to be as high as usual. So since the kick is easier to do, it's also faster and more powerful...

Mid kicks: I am one of those people who are against the notion of blocking mid kicks with the arms. I understand that some people are ok with it, and even use it efficiently, but if we talk pure MT, it's not the rule, but the exceptions. When you learn basics, the defense to mid kick is simple : check. In KB it may be different, specially since blocking kicks with the arms doesn't give points to the opponent, but even there, switch hard kicks to the arms is a regular strategy against heavy punchers (buakaw vs zambidis)

2)

For low kicks, you can turn the knee into the strike and bend your knee, so the angle of your thighs is in a way that a 90° low kick wont do as much damage, and the leg might "slide" up to the hip, making a catch possible without reaching down low. (again, Zambidis did that a lot in KB). But it's kinda easy for the opponent to adjust and make a downward low kick.
As you said, it's not the best option.

3)

I fully (but respectfully) disagree. The only way to be in a good position in the MT clinch (when both fighter know what to do), is to have your hips close to your opponent and be on the ball of your feet. If you have a low stance entering it, you either have your knees bend or your waist bend. In both of those cases, if the opponent has a hold of your head, he needs a lot less power to make you bend your face forward and low (into a knee).
Yes, having low stance make its harder for him to make me move my feet, (and trip) but a lot easier to make me bend at the waist.
For the option to go low and suddenly "pop" up, is not something i have tried, (i will) but it seems too risky.

4)

Since it's not something i do, i can't tell you about that. I would have to train it a lot that way, to be able to compare it with my "regular" kick.

5)

I am not saying that a low stance won't work in MT. But it's an exception, not a rule. And in my opinion, to be good with a "exceptional"" style, (in any sport) is for "exceptional" people. Roy Jones Jr in boxing for example.



But, i am also in favor of having fun... so if the style you have is making you enjoy the sport, don't listen to people like me, and do what you want. Just be sure to master the basics first, and then go crazy...

In reply:
1) The angle from the hip to the hip to the striking part of the leg is more different when further out, so you need to recognise the difference between mid and high kicks and react appropriately. You can do the traditional elbow to knee check and you are still covered. However, you still have the risk of breaking your arm, that you had already highlighted. When you are lower, and perhaps closer to your opponent, the angle from the hip to your body and to your head are more similar. Essentially by compacting your body into a low stance, you are also reducing the breadth of possible targets. This makes it easier to respond to both mid and high kicks in a similar way. I guess I prefer using my defense in a more aggressive way; I would choose a leg catch of a leg check. You are right that compacting down into a lower stance allows the more powerful mid kick technique to be transferred to the head as well and merely taking it on your arms can be bad, especially if you are predominantly a puncher. Saying that, I don't just take it on my arms if I don't have to. I elbow block above the knee (where it is soft and fleshy) and move into a leg catch. I punch the same spot and move into a strong counter (e.g. uppercut). I jam it and move in to take their balance. There are different ways of defending out of the lower stance that is very different to merely taking it on the arms.

2) I agree.

3) Others have chimed in on this thread to reinforce this point. I am not sure if I could add anything more than what they have said. For the record, I like it that we can respectfully disagree with each other and debate the issues intelligently. It is what I like most about these forums.

4) Perhaps, have a play with the different types of kicks out of a high and low stance and see what you notice.

5) In modern muay thai, the rule set favours kicks. You get more points for kicks. If you lose your footing, the fight gets stopped, you get up and keep fighting. Etc. A prdominatly kicking style is going to benefit more from a higher stance because they are quicker and easier to throw. The higher weight of balance isn't as much of a hindrance and so on. So the "basics" are somewhat particular to the context of modern (ring) muay thai. You take the gloves off and punches become much more dangerous, as you see in Burmese boxing. You give more points for leg kicks and suddenly the driving kicks from a lower stance becomes more useful, as seen in K1/Glory. You include the risk of takedowns and the continued fighting on the ground, then the higher weight point and commitment of the hips in the kick become riskier, as seen in MMA. So basics vs exceptional fighter, is partly dictated by the contextual circumstances in which those techniques/styles.

 

[ARIZE]

The discussion is starting to become a little too technical for me to continue it with just writing. We are in a level that messages on a forum wont do it anymore and i wont be able to explain my self properly. I would need a session to fully understand what you mean, and for me to show exactly what i mean.
But i enjoyed it.

 

[Pope Leo VII]

man my eyes light up every time a boxer decides to spar in the world of MT..

almost feel bad for your front leg

 

[PivotPunch]

I have a boxing and a TKD background and I do okish in kickboxing.

Boxers are the master race those who trash boxing just can't box.


I'm halfway serious