How to finally solve your conditioning problem

[vince89]

So lets say I do a 60 second interval and my heart rate shoots up to 175 then I rest until it drops to 120 and then do the interval again?

Will doing this type of training, lead to the time it takes for it to drop to decrease or is there another way to decrease this time?

Thanks.

 

[dragon_21]

No, he seems legit and teh knowledgable. I formally retract my witty barb.

In this case yes. However it will stay because of all the other horrible threads I have seen. I mean how many people are going to try and sell me Nikes?

 

[liquid!]

Eza,

I understand that conditioning training should be highly personalized and you design programs based on individuals needs, but if you could write a conditioning challenge (or conditioning test) for everyone here to try... What would it be?

 

[tf]

Eza,

I understand that conditioning training should be highly personalized and you design programs based on individuals needs, but if you could write a conditioning challenge (or conditioning test) for everyone here to try... What would it be?

EZA,

You put yourself on the hook and I'm afraid we're all waiting, licking our chops, for you to deliver. Perhaps, add some content to the FAQ - specifically, how can a non-professional fighter, jiu jitsu player, grappler, etc. can improve their conditioning without having a medical degree and expensive equipment.

The people need answers!

 

[EZA]

The last time I trained Mach (together with Matt Hume of AMC Pankration) was for the Pride Lightweight Grand Prix a couple years back and believe me he was in shape (resting HR at 44 with great power output) and he will be again. Had he not had to fight 2 weeks after a torn ACL, his fight with Gomi would have been much different.

The best way I can answer all of your questions is to give you an example of a program so I will create a post when I evaluate Mach and discuss the scientific theory and foundation of creating his program. This should give everyone an idea of how it can be done.

As far as a test you can all do there isn't just one single test that will tell you everything, but there are several that are important.

If I had to choose just three things to evaluate conditioning that you can do without expensive equipment here is what they would be:

Resting Heart Rate: this gives a rough idea of cardiac output and for most fighters the ideal number is in the low 50s to upper 40s from my experience over the years. If it's significantly higher than that, start by improving cardiac output.

Power output at Anaerobic Threshold: how much power you can display at your anaerobic threshold is a key indicator of your endurance and power capabilities. The longer the total duration of the fight, the more important this number becomes. If you don't have access to any accurate ways to measure your anaerobic threshold then simply use one of the many formulas you can find online and estimate it (or even better take a look at Lactate, Lactate Pro, Blood Lactate Test, Lactate Analyzer, Lactate Threshold, Anaerobic Threshold Test) Use a piece of cardio equipment that gives power output (ideally in watts) and look at your power output (or you can just look at your speed) when your heart rate hits your anaerobic threshold. As your conditioning and power improve, you will be able to display significantly more power at the same heart rate.

Fight specific heart rate variability: Perform a conditioning test that mimics the rounds/rest intervals of whatever your fight may be. If you're going to be fighting 3x5 minute rounds with 1 minute of rest then do a conditioning test (such as a treadmill run) that allows you to measure power output or distance traveled and record how far you're able to travel each round, how high your heart rate gets during each round, and how low your heart rate drops between rounds.

The best pieces of equipment for this are the woodway force treadmill and the versaclimber. Any non-motorized cardio equipment that lists power in watts or just distance can be used but those are the best. This test gives you an exact idea of how much power you're able to put out over the course of a fight, how your heart responds during each round, and how quickly it comes back down during the rest intervals. These are three of the most important aspects of conditioning and this test gives you an objective and fight specific way to measure your improvement over the course of your conditioning program.

Taken together these three tests will tell you a great deal about your conditioning level and an objective measureable way to guage your improvements. I also like to use heart rates at the end of rounds and between rounds of live sparring as well because all your conditioning the last 3 weeks of training should be fight specific.

Spreaking broadly, the lower you're able to keep your heart rate, the more power you're able to produce, and the quicker your heart rate recovers, the better conditioned and more explosive athlete you will be.

I'm sure someone could easily come up with a monthly challenge based on heart rates and power output using the information I just provided.

Hope this helps. I'll post more later.

 

[tf]

EZA,

Seriously, thanks.

tf

 

[MikeMartial]

Welcome to the forums, EZA; your experience and knowledge is appreciated here.

Resting Heart Rate: this gives a rough idea of cardiac output and for most fighters the ideal number is in the low 50s to upper 40s from my experience over the years. If it's significantly higher than that, start by improving cardiac output.

Power output at Anaerobic Threshold: how much power you can display at your anaerobic threshold is a key indicator of your endurance and power capabilities. The longer the total duration of the fight, the more important this number becomes. If you don't have access to any accurate ways to measure your anaerobic threshold then simply use one of the many formulas you can find online and estimate it (or even better take a look at Lactate, Lactate Pro, Blood Lactate Test, Lactate Analyzer, Lactate Threshold, Anaerobic Threshold Test) Use a piece of cardio equipment that gives power output (ideally in watts) and look at your power output (or you can just look at your speed) when your heart rate hits your anaerobic threshold. As your conditioning and power improve, you will be able to display significantly more power at the same heart rate.

As far as measuring blood lactate levels, what do you use as optimal values for your athletes? I realize this isn't something that every guy here is going to run out and buy, but I'm highly interested in this area. Great link, btw, FACT is where I bought my HRM.

The best pieces of equipment for this are the woodway force treadmill and the versaclimber. Any non-motorized cardio equipment that lists power in watts or just distance can be used but those are the best. This test gives you an exact idea of how much power you're able to put out over the course of a fight, how your heart responds during each round, and how quickly it comes back down during the rest intervals. These are three of the most important aspects of conditioning and this test gives you an objective and fight specific way to measure your improvement over the course of your conditioning program.

What's your opinion on the C2 rowers for gauging wattage and power output? IMO, they have an easy user interface, and are probably a lot more common than the brand of treadmill or a versaclimber these days.

 

[Ted-P]

you are teh sexy eza.

And I thought Mach looked to be in great shape for the LW grand prix.

The torn acl wasnt the problem for the gomi fight.

It was the fucked up throw and gomi's power gnp there after.

Mach got fucked.

 

[Henry Swanson]

Man I wish I could get one of those C2 rowers.

 

[EZA]

With blood lactate it's not about a specific number, it's about finding where the blood-lactate curve spikes upward because this is the Anaerobic Threshold. It's a little different for everyone but 4mmol is used as an average because for most people it's right around there. The key point is that the higher power you're able to generate at lower levels of blood lactate the better. Keep in mind the lactate-response curve and anaerobic threshold will also be different for different exercise and is much different for biking, swimming, and upright activities.

On another note, people have a lot of misconceptions about lactate and it's role in energy production. First of all, lactic acid really does not exist physiologically speaking, lactate and H+ ions separate at blood ph so there really isn't lactic acid present in the blood. Second, lactate can be thought of more as an energy intermediary that allows anaerobic glycolysis to continue and it is beneficial and very important in many ways. Third, even the H+ is only part of the contributing factors that affect muscular fatigue it is not the only thing that lowers ph and newer research is showing that lower ph is not necessarily the main factor in fatigue either. The latest research is looking into inorganic Phosphate P(i) as one of the main contributors to muscular fatigue. The reality is that muscular fatigue is complex and there isn't a complete biochemical model developed yet that answers all the questions about what is the exact cause of fatigue.

The C2 rowers are also a good way to do the tests I mentioned because they are total body and give power readings. The only reason the other two pieces are a little better is because their resistance is more adjustable with a higher ceiling and I've used them more for the tests so I have a better idea of the norms and standards.

If you watch the fight with Mach, Gomi ended up on his back after the throw that went into the ropes and Mach didn't have the strength or stability to plant off his bad knee to get him off until it was too late. Trust me it did affect him quite a bit physically and mentally and had he been 100% the fight would have turned out differently.

 

[daemonarch]

I'm not on here to sell anything and I'm perfectly willing to give out plenty of information for free. Down the road I will put together a book that people can buy if they want to learn more, but I'll always provide a lot of information about my programs for free. QUOTE]

"...a book that people can buy" is a sticky part if you ask me...but OK we can call it advertisement and it is not against the law but something you would like to sell in the end anyway so at least do not start post with "Im not on here to sell anything"

 

[MikeMartial]

With blood lactate it's not about a specific number, it's about finding where the blood-lactate curve spikes upward because this is the Anaerobic Threshold. It's a little different for everyone but 4mmol is used as an average because for most people it's right around there. The key point is that the higher power you're able to generate at lower levels of blood lactate the better. Keep in mind the lactate-response curve and anaerobic threshold will also be different for different exercise and is much different for biking, swimming, and upright activities.

Thanks for the response. I mentioned this to my trainer today, and I think he was a bit surprised I brought it up; he described a routine used every minute immediately PWO to measure your recovery level---is this the curve you mentioned?

On a similar note, and to play Devil's advocate, something like this could be viewed as completely useless. One could argue that as long as an athlete is pushing himself during every workout, his level of lactate tolerance and clearance will improve, anaerobic conditioning will increase, and quantifying the actual level does nothing to enhance training.

On another note, people have a lot of misconceptions about lactate and it's role in energy production. First of all, lactic acid really does not exist physiologically speaking, lactate and H+ ions separate at blood ph so there really isn't lactic acid present in the blood. Second, lactate can be thought of more as an energy intermediary that allows anaerobic glycolysis to continue and it is beneficial and very important in many ways. Third, even the H+ is only part of the contributing factors that affect muscular fatigue it is not the only thing that lowers ph and newer research is showing that lower ph is not necessarily the main factor in fatigue either. The latest research is looking into inorganic Phosphate P(i) as one of the main contributors to muscular fatigue. The reality is that muscular fatigue is complex and there isn't a complete biochemical model developed yet that answers all the questions about what is the exact cause of fatigue.

Excellent explanation; this misconception is (unknowingly) fueled almost daily, and will probably continue to do so. Regarding fatigue, IME heat stress plays a huge factor, probably more so than H+ level.

It would be interesting to see how submerging an athletes hands (or feet) in buckets of ice water between rounds would affect recovery, if this was even possible.

 

[EZA]

No, blood-lactate curve measures the lactate response to graded exercise, not recovery PWO but the two would be completely related anyway.

Saying as long as an athlete pushes himself every workout during every workout his conditioning level will improve is the equivalent of saying as long as you lift a lot of weights you'll continue to get stronger so there is no need to keep track of how much weight you lift or how many sets and reps you do. Quantifying conditioning is a way to measure and track your progress and adjust your program accordingly. It also gives you invaluable information about what heart rates you should be training at to improve whatever it is you need to improve.

There is a huge difference between training to improve lactic power and capacity and training to improve aerobic power and capacity because the two are largely at odds in several ways. One develops oxidative tissue and aerobic enzymes and mitochondria, while the other develops glycolytic tissue and supporting anaerobic processes. Which strategy you need to employ depends on your individual needs and the length of the fight you are training for. This is a very complicated but extremely important concept to understand because it dictates what your conditionign strategy for a given fight should be.

Interestingly, there is some research being done at Stanford that is looking at the effects of cooling the body and endurance and they are getting some pretty impressive results. I believe they are using some sort of system to rapidly cool the arm and bring down body temperature between rounds and it does in fact improve endurance pretty significantly. I don't think the research has been published yet.

 

[MikeMartial]

No, blood-lactate curve measures the lactate response to graded exercise, not recovery PWO but the two would be completely related anyway.

Saying as long as an athlete pushes himself every workout during every workout his conditioning level will improve is the equivalent of saying as long as you lift a lot of weights you'll continue to get stronger so there is no need to keep track of how much weight you lift or how many sets and reps you do. Quantifying conditioning is a way to measure and track your progress and adjust your program accordingly. It also gives you invaluable information about what heart rates you should be training at to improve whatever it is you need to improve.

There is a huge difference between training to improve lactic power and capacity and training to improve aerobic power and capacity because the two are largely at odds in several ways. One develops oxidative tissue and aerobic enzymes and mitochondria, one develops glycolytic tissue and supporting anaerobic processes. Which strategy you need to employ depends on your individual needs and the length of the fight you are training for. This is a very complicated but extremely important concept to understand because it dictates what your conditionign strategy for a given fight should be.

Excellent answer, thank you.

Interestingly, there is some research being done at Stanford that is looking at the effects of cooling the body and endurance and they are getting some pretty impressive results. I believe they are using some sort of system to rapidly cool the arm and bring down body temperature between rounds and it does in fact improve endurance pretty significantly. I don't think the research has been published yet.

We utilize a "cooling chair" with submergable arm rest cavities that can be filled with water/ice; this is used on the fire ground, where obviously heat stress from environment and (more so) firefighting turnout gear taxes the guys to the extreme. I can see this carrying over into athletic recovery, though. The University of Illinois did some great studies recently on heat stress, fatigue, blood lab values, and work capacity on firefighters; as I was reading, I thought it had direct carryover into the athletic field.

 

[Centaur]

but yes start with a heart rate monitor and use it in every conditioning session you do. How quickly your heart rate goes up and how quickly it comes down is one of the real keys to conditioning. All your intervals and lsd should be designed around your own heart rates not around pre set work:rest intervals.


Agreed. I have used in the past, more out of intuition than science, and found it worked well for me. Though I still like 3:1 etc Work:Rest, as well


If you're fighting in 3 minute rounds your conditioning should be different than those fighting in 5 minute rounds because the primary energy systems are different.
This would seem obvious to most (I'd think) but thank you for pointing it out.




I will show everyone exactly what tests they need to do to determine what kind of training methods are the best for them, and which ones will do more harm than good. This is one of the real keys to making dramatic improvements and working your way to the top.

Looking forward to it!!

 

[Centaur]

Excellent answer, thank you.



We utilize a "cooling chair" with submergable arm rest cavities that can be filled with water/ice; this is used on the fire ground,

Weren't we discussing some sort of glove that would accommodate this before? I completley forgot about it until now.

 

[liquid!]

Thanks EZA. Great stuff.

You've got our mental wheels turning when it comes to conditioning training.

 

[liquid!]

I'd imagine cold packs to the femoral, brachial, and caroitid arteries would work well in a short amount of time.

 

[EZA]

I have no idea the cold packs would have to be or where the best placement would be for it to work very well. I'm sure if more reseach proves the effectivenes of lowering core temperature to improve endurance companies will start coming out with products designed around it.

 

[Centaur]

Or you could just put an icepack on the back of the neck/head between rounds. :icon_chee