how much grappling in Kenpo karate | Page 4

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by abhi, May 11, 2006.

  1. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Im not sure if I you agree or not with me.

    My point, going through all the techniques, defense for this, attack for this denfense for X and X situation, is pretty much useless. I think we agree that when the breaks out, its youre training at punching and kicking which will save your asss (in case you are not a grappler) not the repetitions you have put in the secuences of each technique.

    are we in the same boat?
     
    #61
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  2. Sami Ibrahim White Belt

    Sami Ibrahim
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    You can and should isolate every part of a Kenpo technique and develop the required attributes to make each part work in and of its self on a moving and resisting opponent only then will the technique have real value, to come up with good What If answers during the What If phase of instruction requires a realistic understanding of the ways that each part can be countered and as we deal with each of these counters we grow in understanding and skill, lastly we need to take it to the fully spontaneous level and formulate answers with the totality of our art against a skilled fighter and only if we do that all the time will our Kenpo be what the founder envisioned. I don't blame those who think Kenpo is a joke based on the YouTube videos and the way that the Commercial Kenpo world trains.
     
    #62
  3. Sami Ibrahim White Belt

    Sami Ibrahim
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    I agree with you to a point but I am trying to explain to you and others that since the purpose of a progressive system is to take someone who is not familiar with violence and teach them step by step their has to be a starting point and their has to be examples on which to lay the lessons that really matter on. Their are other approaches but we all have to start somewhere. The ideal phase techniques are a part of the starting point.
     
    #63
  4. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    You're missing my point, which was that in commercial BJJ gyms too much time is spent learning new materiel rather than rolling or drilling what is already known.

    Maybe its different where you train?
     
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  5. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    I don't know what you mean by new material... If you are training in a sport bjj gym, new stuff comes out all the times and you have to keep up with it. Specially in Th gi... If you mean bjj for Mma or fighting, basic stuff is all it works, but to my knowledge, most schools at least roll for half the class. My class is divide in 15 to 20 mins warm up (which is done by drilling) then 1 or 2 techniques, and 45 minutes of rolling... Is that what your talking about? Not enough rolling at your gym?
     
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  6. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    Why not just hit pads, do some shadow boxing and light sparring? I don't see the appeal of Kenpo compared to Mauy Thai.
     
    #66
  7. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    Yeah that sounds like a better structure than what im used to. However its different than what is common here in my area.
     
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  8. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    That sucks man...
     
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  9. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    Don't you do sparring drills and techniques in Muay Thai? I always had teachers that were very specific about how to enter this clinch or break that clinch.

    We'd do drills like, "the opponent steps in and throws a 1-2-1. Slip the one while left kicking, either the first or last." Shit like that.

    Muay Thai is a fighting art, so the drills are more useful in a sparring situation, but it is basically the same thing as a kenpo self defense move. I've had kenpo classes where people really came at you during the defense moves. It wasn't that realistic to a fight, but it was hard.

    So if you don't spar a lot, how would you know the difference? There are still MMA fans that watch every UFC and think Bruce Lee would totally wreck with kung fu.
     
    #69
  10. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Man come on... Hitting pads is not the same as doing sd techniques... Hitting 1234 combos is not the same as doing falcon of forces...
     
    #70
  11. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    In kick boxing and Muay Thai or MMA classes, we wouldn't always hit pads. We would put on gloves and do set techniques.

    For example: the opponent steps forward and throws a 1-2 and steps out while throwing a 1.

    You respond by slipping the first or last 1 while throwing a head kick. Another technique would be stepping out to kick the leg on the step in. Another is to throw a side kick when they step out. Another would be pivoting off the 2 and counter hitting.

    Some of them were fancy. There were a couple of guys that liked to practice evading leg kicks from unmatched leads by switching their stances and counter hitting with spinning hook kicks. They could do it for real, at full speed and against strangers, but they practiced it compliantly with one another.

    The difference between these and what I did in Kenpo is in fighting classes, we would use conventional combat sport form and make an effort to strike cleanly at the targets, relying on the defender to protect themselves. We would ramp these drills up to nearly full speed, sometimes striking the body with greater than sparring level power. We could then do these moves while sparring.

    I had my nose bloodied more than once doing these drills and I considered it my fault. We weren't using bad intentions, feinting or breaking rhythm in order to make hits, but we weren't missing on purpose either.

    They were in all ways, compliant partner drills. The difference is in the intensity and form of the attack, the usefulness of the defense, and the actual impacts made between the people practicing. People in Kenpo don't fight enough, so when they correct themselves or make new moves, it is based on taste rather than truth.

    The form of the drills is basically the same.
     
    #71
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  12. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    bro you are talking about 1 counter vs 1 move, which is fine, im talkng about this...



    thats not the same as hitting pads my friend.
     
    #72
  13. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    I don't think I meant to say anything was like hitting pads but hitting pads.
     
    #73
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  14. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    @BJJ_Rage jesus that video. It might almost be time for a Next Level Striking thread.
     
    #74
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  15. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    That's a good one bro... Go into charm city karate channel... That's some ashida Kim shit.
     
    #75
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  16. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    since we are on the subject...

    never gets old....



    his challenge... for fuck sakes...

    http://ashidakim.com/10k.html
     
    #76
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  17. Edison Carasio Excellence of execution belt

    Edison Carasio
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    I'm infinitely intrigued by all the ashida kim type fuckheads. Ashida kim, Frank dux, etc.

    Like some people are fascinated by serial killers. It's martial arts weirdos for me instead.
     
    #77
  18. powerBJJ Green Belt

    powerBJJ
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    and people pay for this....wow
     
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  19. powerBJJ Green Belt

    powerBJJ
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    same bro, i love watching the "chi" people where they throw it in a ball energy
     
    #79
  20. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    This guy though, i spent like a good chunk of the evening watching and reading his bs... Holy fuck he's taken the word bullshido to a whole new level...
     
    #80
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