How much credit will Khabib get for beating Conor ?

[MuayThai101]

They don't even know how to throw proper punches. They hit like 160 lbers in boxing. They're garbage. Most of them aren't half-decent at more than one martial art. You want to know why they get knocked out all the time? It's because none of them have fucking defense. Unless there are some major changes, nobody from the LHW or HW division will ever be in the discussion for GOAT.

Agreed somewhat. How ever, you can make the debate for Jones. I feel like being GOAT is less about skill and more about resume. You can be GOAT but never considered P4P. Imo, Ali is GOAT in boxing but Loma is a much better boxer.

So the whole GOAT talk is pretty pointless because at the end of the day, the HW beats everyone up. Just not Stipe. lol

 

[NotoriousMillions]

Agreed somewhat. How ever, you can make the debate for Jones. I feel like being GOAT is less about skill and more about resume. You can be GOAT but never considered P4P. Imo, Ali is GOAT in boxing but Loma is a much better boxer.

So the whole GOAT talk is pretty pointless because at the end of the day, the HW beats everyone up. Just not Stipe. lol

I wouldn't necessarily say that. They are different sizes and I do take that into account. Lomachenko is going to physically be able to do things Ali can't, and vice versa. P4P Ali is one of the most skilled ever.

I take into account both skill and resume, because they largely go hand-in-hand. People don't realize boxing used to be the premier sport, especially for bigger guys. Of course it's not that way anymore, and MMA certainly isn't that way, but that MATTERS.

Boxing was and still is on another level, yet the way MMA's heavier divisions are talked about, people would have you believe they are on equal footing. The resumes in MMA at HW/LHW are inflated though. You had all these big names from early UFC and Pride, that were simply over-hyped and still are by their cult-like followers. Then you have a guy like Jon beating them on their way out and that no doubt creates a mystique. He beat a lot of MWs too. I've followed Jon before he was even in the UFC, and I can say with certainty he wasn't as good as people thought he was. He wasn't unbeatable, and then Gus really showed that. If he was in any other division he would've lost, and probably multiple times. That's not to say Jon wasn't good, because he was great and the only big that should've been maybe considered as the P4P#1, but people acted like he was the Floyd of MMA, when he very clearly wasn't. He was just a big guy beating everyone's favorite fighter, and they clinged to a false narrative that he was never going to lose because he was that much better than everyone else in MMA, instead of just being better in a division that just wasn't that good to begin with. Then he tested positive for PEDs, and now you don't even know if he was a good fighter at all.

That division is just not in a current state where you can call anyone from them the GOAT like you could in boxing. The thing we have to also understand, and MMA fans have a particular hard-time grasping is that the GOAT of today isn't going to remain the GOAT. You get Anderson fans, and GSP fans, and Jose fans, and they all get defensive, when you point out the sport passed them and not in age, but in skill. GSP not so much, because was always just so ahead of his time, but it probably eventually will. Even if Conor beats Khabib, hell maybe Tony and Nate III, and then captures a WW belt - which at that point he's the GOAT by a country mile if he succeeds, will almost certainly eventually be usurped as the GOAT. MMA is still too undeveloped and niche as a sport for competitors to really be taken seriously.

 

[Superzorro]

Your opinion on this depends on how much you weight quality vs. quantity. GSP, Fedor, Anderson - all have longevity over Conor (and Khabib). Though unfortunately, as much as I love to see history being made, I just don't think this is possible for Conor to accomplish. There's no way for him to beat Khabib in my eyes. And to add to that, I personally don't think either of them have the intention to continue their careers for long enough to compete with any of the greats.

 

[FleximusPrime]

There's no way for him to beat Khabib in my eyes.

Well there it is, the dumbest statement you'll here between now and the actual start of the fight.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

Your opinion on this depends on how much you weight quality vs. quantity. GSP, Fedor, Anderson - all have longevity over Conor (and Khabib). Though unfortunately, as much as I love to see history being made, I just don't think this is possible for Conor to accomplish. There's no way for him to beat Khabib in my eyes. And to add to that, I personally don't think either of them have the intention to continue their careers for long enough to compete with any of the greats.

Quantity means nothing without quality. Anderson and Fedor simply can't be discussed as the GOAT today because of it. GSP outshines them in every regard. If Conor beats Khabib, he will certainly be right there. You can't compare guys like Big Nog and Rich Franklin to guys like Jose and Chad, and that's not even including Conor's LW opponents.

 

[snackgod]

If Conor beats Khabib, without a single shred of a doubt, Conor is the greatest MMA fighter of all time. Now it looks like

1. Fedor
2. GSP
3. Conor
4. Screw Dick Pill
5. Poppers

No one in the history of MMA would have beaten someone like Aldo in one weight class who were like 10 years undefeated, and Khabib in a weight class above, who was also like 10 years undefeated. You can say all you want about his loss to Nate, or how he doesn't defend, I get that, but for me those two would be so impressive it would outweigh anything.

On the flip side, Khabib is fighting Conor coming off a long lay off. Conor is a big weight cutter for featherweight, Khabib is big weight cutter for lightweight, and personally, I think Conor only has a puncher's chance, and not sure how good of that is even, since I don't think Khabib's striking is as bad as some people make it out to be.

I think one thing about this fight is, Khabib is the one who has everything to lose and little to gain. He is expected to win, he's the one who is undefeated, and Conor has nothing to lose, and Conor will run his mouth to a point where Khabib would look pretty bad if he loses, and only way he likely loses is a knock out, and when that happens, he will probably never get a rematch ever again.

conor cant top fedor with out more mahor wins. fedor wins are vs the best of the best and conor isn't.

 

[Superzorro]

Well there it is, the dumbest statement you'll here between now and the actual start of the fight.

There's nothing dumb about it at all. It's an opinion, that can be right or wrong like everyone elses.

Quantity means nothing without quality. Anderson and Fedor simply can't be discussed as the GOAT today because of it. GSP outshines them in every regard. If Conor beats Khabib, he will certainly be right there. You can't compare guys like Big Nog and Rich Franklin to guys like Jose and Chad, and that's not even including Conor's LW opponents.

Rich Franklin can be compared to Chad Mendes because Rich Franklin has actually been a world champion. And while Big Nog isn't as great as Jose Aldo, he's certainly comparable at the time that Fedor beat him. During his prime, Big Nog was one of the best in the world, and now he's an all time great. That aside, you suggesting that Conor has more quality opponents as a way to refute my argument shows that you didn't grasp the point of it at all. My point was to say that Fedor and Anderson have longevity (quantity) over Conor. Fedor went ten years undefeated. And for a majority of those ten years, he was regarded as the number one fighter in the world. Have Conor or Khabib even been fighting for that long?

 

[NotoriousMillions]

There's nothing dumb about it at all. It's an opinion, that can be right or wrong like everyone elses.


Rich Franklin can be compared to Chad Mendes because Rich Franklin has actually been a world champion. And while Big Nog isn't as great as Jose Aldo, he's certainly comparable at the time that Fedor beat him. During his prime, Big Nog was one of the best in the world, and now he's an all time great. That aside, you suggesting that Conor has more quality opponents as a way to refute my argument shows that you didn't grasp the point of it at all. My point was to say that Fedor and Anderson have longevity (quantity) over Conor. Fedor went ten years undefeated. And for a majority of those ten years, he was regarded as the number one fighter in the world. Have Conor or Khabib even been fighting for that long?

So is Royce a GOAT candidate too because he was the best fighter before MMA actually became MMA? What about whoever was the best fighter before that?

If you're only argument that being great for longest, than sure Fedor is the best. Along with Bill Russell in basketball or Rocky Marciano in boxing. LMAO

I did grasp your point, It's just not true. Longevity doesn't mean shit if it's not backed up with substance and in Fedor's case it's not, and in everyone else's case it's not.

The fact that you can compare guys like Rich Franklin and Big Nog to Jose and Chad shows you're clearly pointless to talk to and have no fundamental understanding of what you're looking at. Do me a favor and go spread your nonsense to someone else who it might actually work on.

 

[Superzorro]

So is Royce a GOAT candidate too because he was the best fighter before MMA actually became MMA? What about whoever was the best fighter before that?

If you're only argument that being great for longest, than sure Fedor is the best. Along with Bill Russell in basketball or Rocky Marciano in boxing. LMAO

I did grasp your point, It's just not true. Longevity doesn't mean shit if it's not backed up with substance and in Fedor's case it's not, and in everyone else's case it's not.

The fact that you can compare guys like Rich Franklin and Big Nog to Jose and Chad shows you're clearly pointless to talk to and have no fundamental understanding of what you're looking at. Do me a favor and go spread your nonsense to someone else who it might actually work on.

Big Nog isn't substance? Cro Cop isn't substance? Belfort isn't substance? Hendo isn't substance? Hughes isn't substance? Penn isn't substance? How many champions has Conor faced in comparison? You should know by now, I'm not a Conor hater, and I agree with you for the most part on this forum. Conor just hasn't done enough to put himself ahead of others in terms of greatness. I wish he had. Skill wise, he's there. But skills don't make you 'great,' necessarily. Greatness is what you've done. Conor has beat some good names like Aldo and Holloway, but he's mostly just belt hopped. And his resume just isn't long enough, period.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

Big Nog isn't substance? Cro Cop isn't substance? Belfort isn't substance? Hendo isn't substance? Hughes isn't substance? Penn isn't substance? How many champions has Conor faced in comparison? You should know by now, I'm not a Conor hater, and I agree with you for the most part on this forum. Conor just hasn't done enough to put himself ahead of others in terms of greatness. I wish he had. Skill wise, he's there. But skills don't make you 'great,' necessarily. Greatness is what you've done. Conor has beat some good names like Aldo and Holloway, but he's mostly just belt hopped. And his resume just isn't long enough, period.

Exactly, now you understand! The golden age of MMA wasn't fucking within 10 years that it began. It'd be like saying the best baseball players and boxers came from the 1800s or the best basketball players the early 1900s. It's absolutely ridiculous and stupid, and the game will no doubt pass Conor as well. He is only a temporary fixture in the GOAT discussion just like the names you listed used to be.

But it doesn't matter if you belt hop. Belt hopping means you're fighting champions. Doing otherwise means you're fighting contenders or less. Last I checked, champions > contenders. Conor is doing things no other fighter has ever done in regards to competition, even in their own time period much less with the improved skill level now. You can't logically dispute Conor isn't facing the best competition ever, because not only from a paper standpoint is he, but CERTAINLY from in-ring perspective.

 

[Superzorro]

Exactly, now you understand! The golden age of MMA wasn't fucking within 10 years that it began. It'd be like saying the best baseball players and boxers came from the 1800s or the best basketball players the early 1900s. It's absolutely ridiculous and stupid, and the game will no doubt pass Conor as well. He is only a temporary fixture in the GOAT discussion just like the names you listed used to be.

But it doesn't matter if you belt hop. Belt hopping means you're fighting champions. Doing otherwise means you're fighting contenders or less. Last I checked, champions > contenders. Conor is doing things no other fighter has ever done in regards to competition, even in their own time period much less with the improved skill level now. You can't logically dispute Conor isn't facing the best competition ever, because not only from a paper standpoint is he, but CERTAINLY from in-ring perspective.

How is he facing the best competition ever? He's hardly fought any competition to begin with. The only champions that he has faced are Eddie Alvarez and Jose Aldo.

 

[NotoriousMillions]

How is he facing the best competition ever? He's hardly fought any competition to begin with. The only champions that he has faced are Eddie Alvarez and Jose Aldo.

Hardly faced any competition? LMAO. You are outright delusional!

 

[Superzorro]

Hardly faced any competition? LMAO. You are outright delusional!

Compared to Anderson, GSP, Fedor, yes. Two (arguably three if you include Holloway) champions Conor has faced.
GSP - Bisping, Hendricks, Hughes x2, Penn x2, Serra.
Anderson - Belfort, Griffin, Henderson, Franklin x2
Fedor - Mir, Cro Cop, Noguiera x2, Arlovski
All three have spent more time at the top, defended their title, and have more fights than Conor. How can Conor compare considering all of that?

 

[Hotora86]

To quote the First Zen Patriarch Bodhidharma:
"No credit whatsoever!"

 

[NotoriousMillions]

Compared to Anderson, GSP, Fedor, yes. Two (arguably three if you include Holloway) champions Conor has faced.
GSP - Bisping, Hendricks, Hughes x2, Penn x2, Serra.
Anderson - Belfort, Griffin, Henderson, Franklin x2
Fedor - Mir, Cro Cop, Noguiera x2, Arlovski
All three have spent more time at the top, defended their title, and have more fights than Conor. How can Conor compare considering all of that?

Because they became champion 5 years after MMA started, and suck? lmao

seriously how can you compare guys like Mir, Cro Cop, and Arlovski to Mendes, Aldo, and Poirer? Or Griffin, Franklin, and Belfort to Holloway, Alvarez, and Diaz?

You can make a case for GSP for now, but even that'll soon be surpassed.