How important is speed in Jiu Jitsu

[Cross]

I'm only a white belt so what do I know but it seems to me that is very important. Wasted opportunities because you weren't fast enough can cost you finishing a sub or escape.

 

[bjjaz]

I'm only a white belt so what do I know but it seems to me that is very important. Wasted opportunities because you weren't fast enough can cost you finishing a sub or escape.

But this of course is more timing than actual speed.

 

[spacetime]

Doesn't look very important judging by the pace of the competitons. The better guy is not generally fast twitching faster, he is just better at implementing his game.

Probably more true for wrestling

 

[aries]

Everyone keeps saying timing is more important, but if your timing is matched against another guy then the one who is fastest will prevail.

 

[asian-glow]

I've heard that good timing can look like speed. On a similar note I've heard that good positioning can feel like strength.

 

[beat...people...up?]

I've heard that good timing can look like speed. On a similar note I've heard that good positioning can feel like strength.

Yeah. I'm a white belt with a track background so I would say I'm fast and strong and can move well. And I get completely destroyed by higher belts with good technique, without much apparent effort on their part. It's leverage and angles and a sense of when and where to move. Really cool actually. It gives me a lot of respect for BJJ as a sport.

So lately I've been trying to slow down and focus on correct technique--using my athleticism and speed only works on other white belts, if that. It is useful for some moves like takedowns that require explosiveness and I can see that I will likely gravitate towards a wrestling-influenced style as I progress.

Final note: wrong to think nogi rewards speed more? Yes/no?

 

[asian-glow]

Yeah. I'm a white belt with a track background so I would say I'm fast and strong and can move well. And I get completely destroyed by higher belts with good technique, without much apparent effort on their part. It's leverage and angles and a sense of when and where to move. Really cool actually. It gives me a lot of respect for BJJ as a sport.

So lately I've been trying to slow down and focus on correct technique--using my athleticism and speed only works on other white belts, if that. It is useful for some moves like takedowns that require explosiveness and I can see that I will likely gravitate towards a wrestling-influenced style as I progress.

Final note: wrong to think nogi rewards speed more? Yes/no?

Generally, I think so. The lack of friction and controlling grips usually increases the urgency to get to certain dominant positions.

 

[spacetime]

It's leverage and angles and a sense of when and where to move.

What do you mean by leverage? A alot of people throw that word around, but I have never understood it's real meaning, as a foreign speaker.

Based on the the little jujitsu I have done, strength and endurance is more crucial than speed.

 

[beat...people...up?]

What do you mean by leverage? A alot of people throw that word around, but I have never understood it's real meaning, as a foreign speaker.

Based on the the little jujitsu I have done, strength and endurance is more crucial than speed.

By leverage, I mean creating angles that allow you to exert little force but still move a large object. A ton of sweeps work because you have basically made your partner into a lever and made some part of yourself the fulcrum (the thing that they move on). Does that make any better sense?

 

[spacetime]

By leverage, I mean creating angles that allow you to exert little force but still move a large object. A ton of sweeps work because you have basically made your partner into a lever and made some part of yourself the fulcrum (the thing that they move on). Does that make any better sense?

Okey. So why are some people better at creating angles? I am not arguing, asking

 

[yetanother]

Okey. So why are some people better at creating angles? I am not arguing, asking

Because they use techniques/moves that get them to a better angle.

 

[mattemate]

I've noticed something strange, sort of a breakthrough in my game lately. I've been helping a lot of white belts get ready for competition, and I want them to have some confidence, to get used to the feel of winning.

So I'll tell them look, I'm going to go 60% but you go 100. I'm going to let you pass, mount, and submit, and I'll be giving some resistance.

So this means I'm trying to use only 60%speed as well. The result is a slow, pressure game. As long as I maintain grips, even at 60% I'm just shutting it down. It's weird because my current coach is a legit world class featherweight, freak athlete, very fast, and that's the game of our academy more or less.

But I'm using old school Relson stuff exclusively, passing from the knees to begin, and smashing everyone with minimal effort except my coach and our top competitors.

I'm also dealing with open guards by actually going INTO their closed guarsgand passing from there.

Most academies don't have good closed guards anymore, and that includes stopping pressure passing.

Which is all a long way of saying speed isn't the most important thing, especially once you have your grips.

 

[yetanother]

I've noticed something strange, sort of a breakthrough in my game lately. I've been helping a lot of white belts get ready for competition, and I want them to have some confidence, to get used to the feel of winning.

So I'll tell them look, I'm going to go 60% but you go 100.

Isn't people going light still crashing use super demotivating?

 

[spacetime]

Because they use techniques/moves that get them to a better angle.

That doesn't really say much either. Between equally matched grapplers, they know the same techniques

 

[mattemate]

Isn't people going light still crashing use super demotivating?

I don't think so. I've been on the other side of it before, it just motivated me to work harder to increase my skill level to be able to do the same thing to someone else

 

[ArtemV]

Very. It can stop you from getting tapped out, or tapping someone out. Attacking off of reactions etc

 

[asian-glow]

What do you mean by leverage? A alot of people throw that word around, but I have never understood it's real meaning, as a foreign speaker.

Based on the the little jujitsu I have done, strength and endurance is more crucial than speed.

Leverage
"Leverage" is sometimes used literally. For example when we do an armbar, I think the reason we grab at the wrist instead of at the forearm is because it is literally the furthest, stable point along the lever of their arm.
Same for a tripod sweep - we grab at the ankle and push at the hip because they are the furthest points along the lever of their leg. I think grabbing further on the lever may minimize the necessary amount of input force on one side of the lever to produce the same output force on the other side of the lever.

At other times I've seen instructors use this word to mean using relatively strong parts of your body to control, isolate, or damage relatively weak parts of their body; basically, putting your opponent out of position to respond efficiently. For example, your arms are relatively weak but they can be an efficient, offensive option if your opponent can't use his arms to defend a RNC or anaconda. I'm sure leverage in the literal sense is at play in these scenarios as well, just in more nuanced ways than I can comprehend.

There's a dude named Doctor_Kickass on IG who I believe is a Ph.D in physiotherapy and a Dynamix black belt. He is always releasing insightful content on fight biomechanics - mostly grappling related but some other stuff too, like concussions.

Attributes
Personally, I would agree with on endurance and strength being more important, but purely from a technical standpoint. What I mean is I think endurance is important because it allows me to be on the mats longer. Furthermore, being stronger will make my body more resistant to injury and also allow me to stay on the mats longer. More time on the mats means I have more opportunities for technical improvement. Strength and endurance offer direct benefits in regards to defeating opponents too but it's just a nice perk. While it's not a stretch for me to imagine that speed also elongates my mat time, it's more abstract for me to imagine how one correlates to the other.

I think these attributes will give a huge advantage competitively, however, particularly in weight classes which stereotypically lack a certain attribute. For example, big people who are strong but also have speed are a nightmare. I think that's why people like Buchecha and Erberth Santos are such outliers.

While a little harder to observe, I'm sure being strong at the lower weight classes where everyone is already fast is also a huge asset.

I've heard before that 170-180lbs is the perfect balance. Big enough to be strong but small enough to be fast.