How has Barboza’s wrestling not improved?

Epicness said:
Touché. To be fair i picked Lee to win thinking he would get him to the ground and lock up a sub at some point, but i was NOT expecting to see him brutalize Edson like that.

I guess i underestimated Kevin
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you mean the guy that was an eyelash away from being stopped from a spinning kick?
 
Well Lee had to many advantages:

- wrestling skills
- size
- strength
- age
- will and hunger I feel this dude believe he can be champ and defend it while I'm not so sure Edson deep down truly thinks he can do this anymore

- oh and that 1 pound not being cut I know it seems little but I wonder how he would have taken that kick if he had completed his cut there is a reason why he chose to pay 20% if his purse then having to cut that 1 lbs he must have cut a lot to get to that point, he very well could have been 180+ on fight night
 
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It's a logical fallacy by most people to equate everything to one art or another when talking about MMA. The better question is, why hasn't his kickboxing evolved?

He's literally never going to have the level of wrestling of the guys you mentioned, but he doesn't need it - they aren't competing in wrestling. What he does need however is better footwork and awareness concerning the cage. That's not me saying he shouldn't train his wrestling, of course he should, but he needs to work on things that allow his best attribute to shine, which is his kickboxing.

If he had better footwork, managed distance better and overall maintained a better range between his opponent and the cage, you would see these wrestlers having to shoot from much further out, which would lead to less success on their part.

It reminds me of when JDS lost to Cain and everyone was clamoring about his wrestling even though he defended something like twenty plus takedowns and managed to get up every time. Honestly, for not being a grappler, his wrestling is great, it was his footwork that kept getting him in positions where he had to constantly defend TDs and his poor boxing defense that lead to him losing.
 
Epicness said:
I get it, you get to a certain age or point in your fight career and old habits die hard. Barboza was a muay thai guy who transitioned to MMA later on. But when you look at just a few of the guys who he gets to train with in Jersey...what the fuck man? Off the top of my head:

Weidman
Frankie
Alvarez
Moraes
Zabit

All Mark Henry guys. And stud grapplers in their own right. And the dude trains full time there now...are Khabib and Lee just THAT good? Or is he just too set in his ways at this point?

I love Edson, hes a tough bastard and super exciting striker but i dont wanna watch the guy keep getting beat down like this
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I dont think it has,his hand positioning in alot of the takedowns was poor,he wasnt getting an underhook at times,he didnt push down on the head at all,there is no way lee should of been able to take him down after the wheelkick.He should of been able to stuff it and pound him out.
 
Torrid said:
It's a logical fallacy by most people to equate everything to one art or another when talking about MMA. The better question is, why hasn't his kickboxing evolved?

He's literally never going to have the level of wrestling of the guys you mentioned, but he doesn't need it - they aren't competing in wrestling. What he does need however is better footwork and awareness concerning the cage. That's not me saying he shouldn't train his wrestling, of course he should, but he needs to work on things that allow his best attribute to shine, which is his kickboxing.

If he had better footwork, managed distance better and overall maintained a better range between his opponent and the cage, you would see these wrestlers having to shoot from much further out, which would lead to less success on their part.

It reminds me of when JDS lost to Cain and everyone was clamoring about his wrestling even though he defended something like twenty plus takedowns and managed to get up every time. Honestly, for not being a grappler, his wrestling is great, it was his footwork that kept getting him in positions where he had to constantly defend TDs and his poor boxing defense that lead to him losing.
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Its poor boxing that leads to alot of takedowns.Look at pettis for example once you get inside a certain range he has nothing and you can bully your way inside.The same is said of Jds,he has nothing when you put him on the back foot and dont let him set.
 
Ask the guy in your AV how come his takedown defense does not seem to improve?
 
Epicness said:
I get it, you get to a certain age or point in your fight career and old habits die hard. Barboza was a muay thai guy who transitioned to MMA later on. But when you look at just a few of the guys who he gets to train with in Jersey...what the fuck man? Off the top of my head:

Weidman
Frankie
Alvarez
Moraes
Zabit

All Mark Henry guys. And stud grapplers in their own right. And the dude trains full time there now...are Khabib and Lee just THAT good? Or is he just too set in his ways at this point?

I love Edson, hes a tough bastard and super exciting striker but i dont wanna watch the guy keep getting beat down like this
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I'll watch him get beat down as much as he wants me too.
 
spooNN said:
Ask the guy in your AV how come his takedown defense does not seem to improve?
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I gave up asking that after he got taken down by Martin Kampmann with ease in their 2nd fight
 
It hasn’t improved with the Frankie Edgar wrestling and the Ricardo Alemida BJJ
 
Lee played on Barboza's weaknesses in footwork. He moves well to the right(his left) but not to the left. Lee pressured him to move left and was able to cut him off and shoot. When Barboza moved right, Lee threw a big bodykick. Barboza tends to abandon pivots when pressured. Barboza has to develop a more offensive come forward style, so that he isn't always reacting to his opponent's offense. Also work on slipping punches and countering with straight shots, not just timing entries and throwing hooks. There are lots of things he could add to his fence wrestling, granby rolls to escape mat returns, turning and breaking grips when the opponent has a bodylock instead of holding onto the whizzer...etc. Right now he just leans on the fence and fights for underhooks.
 
Training and “go-time” are different universes

Thats why the term “any given Sunday” couldnt be more true in competition, and especially MMA
 
Epicness said:
I get it, you get to a certain age or point in your fight career and old habits die hard. Barboza was a muay thai guy who transitioned to MMA later on. But when you look at just a few of the guys who he gets to train with in Jersey...what the fuck man? Off the top of my head:

Weidman
Frankie
Alvarez
Moraes
Zabit

All Mark Henry guys. And stud grapplers in their own right. And the dude trains full time there now...are Khabib and Lee just THAT good? Or is he just too set in his ways at this point?

I love Edson, hes a tough bastard and super exciting striker but i dont wanna watch the guy keep getting beat down like this
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Probably reached his maximum at this point, that just happens when you're that good at anything in life.

Lee and Khabib are also 2 of the best grapplers in the entire sport, not just the division.
 
He can't maintain distance at all. There is more to TDD than just pure wrestling ability.
 
I don't think Edson's TDD was criticized until he fought Lee & Khabib and in fact I think it was widely considered effective.
 
Countless kids play basketball nonstop from childhood, they don't get as good as NBA players. People have different talents.
 
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