How far would prime Roy Jones. Jr have come in this era?

[wilddeuces]

I'm not disputing that Usyk is the best CW on the planet, right now, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would do so (his fight with Breidis was genuinely close, but I struggle to see Breidis ever beating him clearly considering the style clash). Roy Jones controlled the pace of his fights because his speed advantages on the outisde were such that his opponents were always scared to commit. That's why his workrate was generally low (although, it should be noted that he threw more than 600 punches several times throughout his career). Usyk isn't a guy who comes forward and throws with abandon. He's a guy who eases into fights and boxes with his opponents until he starts breaking them down. Then he gradually comes forward and puts his shots together at a high volume. He wouldn't get past the first step against Jones. Jones would be hitting having his way from the outside (Usyk is a fast CW, but I've seen little to suggest he has earned the "fastest ever" moniker even with CWs very limited history, whereas Roy Jones Jr. probably would be the odds on choice for the fastest p4p boxer of all time), and no height or reach advantage would change that fact.

The fact that Usyk would clearly be second best from the outside doesn't mean he couldn't win the fight. He'd have to fight out of character, come forward, be willing to take a lot of shots (Roy would be outsized and certainly wouldn't be a devastating puncher above LHW, but it's not like he's any less of a puncher than a guy like Tony Bellew who people seem to think is a real puncher at CW), and try to consistently trap Roy against the ropes and make him pay with combinations. I've seen little reason to have much confidence in him doing that, but it's possible. There are guys in history who would have made CW who I'd have plenty of confidence in beating Roy (I'd have plenty of confidence in Frazier stopping Jones Jr., for example).

Usyk's lead hand, and his movement would bother Jones. Jones liked his opponents standing in front of him, mesmerized, like a cobra's victim. Could that be Usyk? Maybe. I could buy that, it happened enough. But Roy had two incredible wins at MW - against Bhop who had no punch, and against Toney who wanted to stand in the pocket and never close his eyes. Neither of those wins (easily in his top 5) were at CW. Roy would just be a bit past his ceiling weight of 175.

Roy doesn't cut the ring, and he may be a weight class too far to beat Usyk who, at CW is remarkably fleet of foot. If they were MW or even LHW I could see a Roy win, but CW is too far. The fight is too close because of those rose-coloured glasses (the same pair Tyson fans in the 90s had). Safe money is on Usyk by decision because of his pedigree and surprising workrate off his back foot.

 

[JayE]

Hmmmmm. I kind of disagree.

Ward stinks out every arena and PPV he has ever been a part of. All the holding, and he wrestles an awful lot. There's no dream match if you want entertainment.

I respect his talent to win (and, yes, I know what I'm watching) but he is one of them at the bottom of the barrel for enjoyability.

Roy, though, had talent and watchability. He'd probably win, too, because Ward wasn't great at pressure, and he lacked the big punch.

That being said, if someone chooses to root for a fighter, they'll put up with all the stuff that happens if it means their fighter wins. If any Ward fan saw another boxer try to hit a single leg takedown (something Ward did) on another fighter they were rooting for, they'd be irate.

Ward has headlined two PPVs, and both were genuinely enjoyable fights. That's a great catch-all diagnosis of Ward's entire fanbase in that last paragraph, though.

 

[JayE]

Usyk's lead hand, and his movement would bother Jones. Jones liked his opponents standing in front of him, mesmerized, like a cobra's victim. Could that be Usyk? Maybe. I could buy that, it happened enough. But Roy had two incredible wins at MW - against Bhop who had no punch, and against Toney who wanted to stand in the pocket and never close his eyes. Neither of those wins (easily in his top 5) were at CW. Roy would just be a bit past his ceiling weight of 175.

Roy doesn't cut the ring, and he may be a weight class too far to beat Usyk who, at CW is remarkably fleet of foot. If they were MW or even LHW I could see a Roy win, but CW is too far. The fight is too close because of those rose-coloured glasses (the same pair Tyson fans in the 90s had). Safe money is on Usyk by decision because of his pedigree and surprising workrate off his back foot.

Neither of the wins were at CW (Toney was at SMW, not MW), but Toney went on to be the top rated CW in the world (as well as a top HW), and is without question better than anyone Usyk has ever fought. A chubby CW Toney beats all of Usyk's opposition without much of any trouble (Usyk would give Toney problems, though). Talking resumes probably isn't going to help Usyk's case, as he hasn't even really fought a good outside boxer, yet alone someone remotely similar to Jones. Even with this in mind, there are still instances of Usyk struggling with quick fighters on the outside (journeymen, not perhaps the most athletic fighter in history).

I really don't see how people are confident in Usyk winning this fight from the outside. If he were to come forward and put sustained pressure on Jones while throwing with a high volume, sure, I could get on board with an idea like that, but we've never really seen him fight like that from the get-go. On the outside, though, the speed difference would be altogether too much.

 

[wilddeuces]

Ward has headlined two PPVs, and both were genuinely enjoyable fights. That's a great catch-all diagnosis of Ward's entire fanbase in that last paragraph, though.

Low numbers, and part of the reason is his style. That's not criticizing his ability, that's just the truth.

And yes, the Kovalev fight was good.

 

[wilddeuces]

Neither of the wins were at CW (Toney was at SMW, not MW), but Toney went on to be the top rated CW in the world (as well as a top HW), and is without question better than anyone Usyk has ever fought. A chubby CW Toney beats all of Usyk's opposition without much of any trouble (Usyk would give Toney problems, though). Talking resumes probably isn't going to help Usyk's case, as he hasn't even really fought a good outside boxer, yet alone someone remotely similar to Jones. Even with this in mind, there are still instances of Usyk struggling with quick fighters on the outside (journeymen, not perhaps the most athletic fighter in history).

I really don't see how people are confident in Usyk winning this fight from the outside. If he were to come forward and put sustained pressure on Jones while throwing with a high volume, sure, I could get on board with an idea like that, but we've never really seen him fight like that from the get-go. On the outside, though, the speed difference would be altogether too much.

Thanks for the SMW correction about Toney, my bad. But Jones didn't fight him at CW. Sometimes a fighter is better at a certain weight and when he moves up and fights the same guy, he isn't as good. CW wasn't Roy's best weight, even if he had some good work there.

I am not confident about Usyk winning, but I can say that CW isn't Roy's optimal weight. I can see Usyk winning, who says it's easy; in a close fight it could go either way.

 

[wilddeuces]

Ward has headlined two PPVs, and both were genuinely enjoyable fights. That's a great catch-all diagnosis of Ward's entire fanbase in that last paragraph, though.

The last paragraph begins by applying to most fans about most fighters, that's just a human truth. For example, fans that don't think Floyd got dirty are willing to look past the elbows because they like him. Same with Ward, there is a willingness to 'accept' or mentally downplay some of the suspect stuff he does in the ring. Canelo fans will tend to believe the tainted meat excuse more than not believe it. Fans that love Kovalev will say the second fight was decided by lowblows, and Ward's fans will say that the low blows were a non-issue or that they did not happen.

It's people, it's how we do things.

 

[treelo]

i had to actually look up the fact that RJJ fought at Cruiserweight, anyone even mentioning that needs to stop looking at boxrec to decide how good fighters were

 

[aries]

I'm not disputing that Usyk is the best CW on the planet, right now, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would do so (his fight with Breidis was genuinely close, but I struggle to see Breidis ever beating him clearly considering the style clash). Roy Jones controlled the pace of his fights because his speed advantages on the outisde were such that his opponents were always scared to commit. That's why his workrate was generally low (although, it should be noted that he threw more than 600 punches several times throughout his career). Usyk isn't a guy who comes forward and throws with abandon. He's a guy who eases into fights and boxes with his opponents until he starts breaking them down. Then he gradually comes forward and puts his shots together at a high volume. He wouldn't get past the first step against Jones. Jones would be hitting having his way from the outside (Usyk is a fast CW, but I've seen little to suggest he has earned the "fastest ever" moniker even with CWs very limited history, whereas Roy Jones Jr. probably would be the odds on choice for the fastest p4p boxer of all time), and no height or reach advantage would change that fact.

The fact that Usyk would clearly be second best from the outside doesn't mean he couldn't win the fight. He'd have to fight out of character, come forward, be willing to take a lot of shots (Roy would be outsized and certainly wouldn't be a devastating puncher above LHW, but it's not like he's any less of a puncher than a guy like Tony Bellew who people seem to think is a real puncher at CW), and try to consistently trap Roy against the ropes and make him pay with combinations. I've seen little reason to have much confidence in him doing that, but it's possible. There are guys in history who would have made CW who I'd have plenty of confidence in beating Roy (I'd have plenty of confidence in Frazier stopping Jones Jr., for example).

I just don't see it the same way you do. Jones was blazing fast but that extra bit of reach really makes a difference because it gives you longer to see things coming. I think a 4" reach disadvantage really nullifies the extra speed that Jones has over Usyk. I don't think Usyk would be scared to commit because he can reach out and touch Jones 4" earlier than Jones can reach him. That makes him pretty safe letting his jab go which is where I think he would win the fight, with a well-educated jab. And no Usyk doesn't just come forward with abandon but then he doesn't have to, all he has to do is outwork Jones and land his jab more on Jones than Jones can counter him. I really don't see Jones having his way with Usyk on the outside at all due to a rather large 4" reach disadvantage not to mention a 4" height disadvantage. They would really make a difference in negating Jones speed and Usyk is definitely the fastest CW I've ever seen.

Usyk I don't think would stop RJJ because he's not a massive hitter but I'd certainly put my money on him to outpoint RJJ. We obviously aren't going to agree because you think Jones speed will negate a 4" reach and height difference and Usyk's own blistering speed, I, on the other hand, do not.

 

[Dacoda]

Hmmmmm. I kind of disagree.

Ward stinks out every arena and PPV he has ever been a part of. All the holding, and he wrestles an awful lot. There's no dream match if you want entertainment.

I respect his talent to win (and, yes, I know what I'm watching) but he is one of them at the bottom of the barrel for enjoyability.

Roy, though, had talent and watchability. He'd probably win, too, because Ward wasn't great at pressure, and he lacked the big punch.

That being said, if someone chooses to root for a fighter, they'll put up with all the stuff that happens if it means their fighter wins. If any Ward fan saw another boxer try to hit a single leg takedown (something Ward did) on another fighter they were rooting for, they'd be irate.

He might not be the most satisfying fighter to watch for casuals but you got to respect wards craft, his ring iq is among the best

 

[wilddeuces]

He might not be the most satisfying fighter to watch for casuals but you got to respect wards craft, his ring iq is among the best

I'm not disagreeing.

 

[nastyleft]

I will agree RJJ had amazing speed for a smw. But SRR is by most boxing gurus the Absolute GOAT. By my eye contest vote none touches prime RJJ had no weakness an beat prime Bhop n prime Toney both are top 10 smw ever. The legend of SRR v what I saw personally from RJJ no idea.

I always try to see what it was about Robinson and Roy Jones always comes to mind. When I compare athleic, physical and style attributes, everytime I can't see how Ray would handle Roy. I mean Ray Robinson inhis prime got KO'd by lesser guys.

 

[Streeter]

. I mean Ray Robinson inhis prime got KO'd by lesser guys.

SRR first time he got kod was his 130th fight an definitleya little past his prime. And was only Kod 1 time.

 

[nastyleft]

SRR first time he got kod was his 130th fight an definitleya little past his prime. And was only Kod 1 time.

Roy startches SRR, stop it!

 

[Old Cat]

Roy startches SRR, stop it!

I know it’s verboten but I’ll say it too. Roy beats Ray. Now Ray predominately fought in lower weight classes than Roy so its not really a stretch. Weighclasses aside I still think Roy beats him. There is said it. This crap is all subjective anyway.

I’ve never seen a man on film or live around Roy’s best weight i would pick over him, Nobody.

 

[nastyleft]

I’ve never seen a man on film or live around Roy’s best weight i would pick over him, Nobody.

That's exactly how I feel when I wwatch Ray Robinson on tape. I try to look at it from diferent angels everytime and I still come out feeling the same way. I just don't see how Ray has the tools to beat Roy. I say to people, Take the Roy that entered the ring against Tony (any weight) and take the best version of Robinson ever (any weight). Make them the same weight fighting and I just don't see Robinson winning.

 

[Marc A]

Probably would have dominated. Who at middle, super middle and light heavy beats prime Jones?

GGG breaks him

 

[nastyleft]

GGG breaks him

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

Probably would have dominated. Who at middle, super middle and light heavy beats prime Jones?

I wouldn’t pick anyone to beat prime Roy.
Once he lost his speed, he was just a good boxer with an ok chin. He was unhittable for ten years.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

GGG breaks him

I absolutely love Golovkin (and want him to crossover to MMA SO bad), but he is a sitting duck for Roy. Terrible matchup. Too slow and plodding, and too tough, would just eat wayyyy too many punches. Roy would tee off on him.

 

[nastyleft]

I absolutely love Golovkin (and want him to crossover to MMA SO bad), but he is a sitting duck for Roy. Terrible matchup. Too slow and plodding, and too tough, would just eat wayyyy too many punches. Roy would tee off on him.

Yep, the ref would stop it due to too many clean ugly looking shots Roy would be landing on GGG.

I like GGG also, but he's tailormade for a boxer that can move. Canelo is a boxer that can't move and we see how much trouble he gives GGG. All people have to do is look at it this way. The James Toney that came into ring, that got outclassed that night against Roy, would've walked through GGG that night.