How did you learn to upa?

[bjjpepperz]

I train under a Rickson BB and having a hard time resolving apparent misinformation about the upa mount escape.

We learn on Day 1 that the correct way to execute an upa is to trap the arm / foot, tilt head to the opposite side, and bridge the opponent over your shoulder (as opposed to your side.)

It’s very obvious even on your first week / month that if you do not take the person “over your shoulder” and instead just roll them to your side (easy mistake to make when you’re rolling especially as beginner), that they may be able to successfully post with their opposite arm / leg and nullify your escape.

So I was watching a Henry Akins instructional, where he went over this exact escape with a room full of black / brown belts... and their minds were all blown!

Also I’ve noticed other mount escape instructionals teach the same “flawed way” of doing it (going to the side instead of over the shoulder.)

I’m wondering how unique our way of executing this move is in the BJJ community?

Forgive me if this question seems ridiculous. I have not trained anywhere else and those black belt’s reactions really took me by surprise.

UPDATE / EDIT:

Here’s an example I just found now for the first time...

Why is this way of doing the UPA new to this black belt?



You might say it’s because he was nervous working with Rickson and didn’t want to upstage the master or whatever but this is pretty much the same behavior the other black belts had in the Akins video.

They were doing it wrong without realizing it until Henry Akinscorrected them.... after which they acted like “OMG that is so awesome!”

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I train under a Rickson BB and having a hard time resolving apparent misinformation about the upa mount escape.

We learn on Day 1 that the correct way to execute an upa is to trap the arm / foot, tilt head to the opposite side, and bridge the opponent over your shoulder (as opposed to your side.)

It’s very obvious even on your first week / month that if you do not take the person “over your shoulder” and instead just roll them to your side (easy mistake to make when you’re rolling especially as beginner), that they may be able to successfully post with their opposite arm / leg and nullify your escape.

So I was watching a Henry Akins instructional, where he went over this exact escape with a room full of black / brown belts... and their minds were all blown!

Also I’ve noticed other mount escape instructionals teach the same “flawed way” of doing it (going to the side instead of over the shoulder.)

I’m wondering how unique our way of executing this move is in the BJJ community?

Forgive me if this question seems ridiculous. I have not trained anywhere else and those black belt’s reactions really took me by surprise.

You do not roll them to your side, you roll them over your shoulder, who told you roll him To your side? Bridge straight up, get his weight off the mat, then you proceed to roll him over your shoulder.

 

[Hotora86]

You do not roll them to your side, you roll them over your shoulder, who told you roll him To your side? Bridge straight up, get his weight off the mat, then you proceed to roll him over your shoulder.

Same reaction here, weird to me that someone would teach to roll the opponent to the side. I learned the upa in Judo and they always taught it over the shoulder, never to the side.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Same reaction here, weird to me that someone would teach to roll the opponent to the side. I learned the upa in Judo and they always taught it over the shoulder, never to the side.

I think he "figured that out" himself...

 

[dmwalking]

Over the shoulder. I learned via youtube. LOL.

 

[RemyR]

Shoulder

 

[winterbike]

Shoulder. It's common knowledge in every gym I've been to.

 

[Ryo]

Learned to roll them over your shoulder in Judo years ago. Purple belts teach this at the gym every other week. Can't imagine who these black belts were...

 

[bjjpepperz]

Well that certainly appears to answer my question then. It’s reassuring to hear you all agreeing

Wouldn’t have thought twice about it if I didn’t see a school full of people in awe.

UPDATE / EDIT:

Here’s an example I just found now for the first time...

Why is this way of doing the UPA new to this black belt?



You might say it’s because he was nervous working with Rickson and didn’t want to upstage the master or whatever but this is pretty much the same behavior the other black belts had... (they were doing it wrong without realizing it until Henry Akins corrected them.... and then they acted like “OMG that is so awesome!”)

 

[Coconutwater]

I learned Upa directly from Rorion.
Over the shoulder, which is how everyone learns it.

Then, years later, I learned the Rickson upa, with the head shoved over to one side so as to not “Stop the motion.”

Personally, after years of folk wrestling and non-Rickson bjj, I have always had trouble doing it Rickson style, my instinct is the “normal” upa even if its not as good. I’d have to redrill the upa a thousand times to kill my instincts.

 

[bjjpepperz]

Thanks for that... so in your experience the “Rickson way” (of moving your head to the side) *was* new to you even though you already knew the main escape.... I guess that means most BJJ schools do *not* teach it that way, if it is known as the “Rickson way”

So there is some validity to even black belt experts being impressed by this small nuance they didnt know before.

I learned Upa directly from Rorion.
Over the shoulder, which is how everyone learns it.

Then, years later, I learned the Rickson upa, with the head shoved over to one side so as to not “Stop the motion.”

Personally, after years of folk wrestling and non-Rickson bjj, I have always had trouble doing it Rickson style, my instinct is the “normal” upa even if its not as good. I’d have to redrill the upa a thousand times to kill my instincts.

 

[Ryo]

A purple belt showed me the head to the side version some time ago. So I assume it's not that uncommon.

 

[Was at Pride GP 2000]

Well that certainly appears to answer my question then. It’s reassuring to hear you all agreeing

Wouldn’t have thought twice about it if I didn’t see a school full of people in awe.

UPDATE / EDIT:

Here’s an example I just found now for the first time...

Why is this way of doing the UPA new to this black belt?



You might say it’s because he was nervous working with Rickson and didn’t want to upstage the master or whatever but this is pretty much the same behavior the other black belts had... (they were doing it wrong without realizing it until Henry Akins corrected them.... and then they acted like “OMG that is so awesome!”)

I believe what happens is the fine details, if not reviewed on the regular, get.lost. so many people don't move their head to create the space to put the guy. Instead they drill sequence , bump, hip switch, bump. Back and forth til the hip escape or roll the guy over. If you drill it right for a year, I don't know how you could ever forget.

 

[maximus__]

Yeah it is the head positioning which is different. When I was taught years ago you looked the way you wanted to go. From memory because I can't watch those vids, Rickson teaches to look the opposite to the way you roll. When some of us learnt the Upa 10+ years ago at some places it was taught differently.

 

[ArtemV]

Shoulder, I got taught to always do things at an angle; this escape is no different.

 

[EGDM]

I always thought of the upa as if I were doing a back layout, visualizing getting my chest to the ground by looking up and over the shoulder. As far as I can tell, that's what Rickson is doing. Where's my red belt?

 

[lechien]

A purple belt showed me the head to the side version some time ago. So I assume it's not that uncommon.

But only rickson and his followers claimed to have that particular nuance.

 

[bjjpepperz]

I know you are being sarcastic here but when I look at that video (added to my original post) along with the seminar attendee reactions I saw, that was the impression I had.

If that truly is a more effective way I just can’t believe it’s such a secret that other black belts don’t know it.

But only rickson and his followers claimed to have that particular nuance.

 

[dimmyfinster]

Yeah it is the head positioning which is different. When I was taught years ago you looked the way you wanted to go. From memory because I can't watch those vids, Rickson teaches to look the opposite to the way you roll. When some of us learnt the Upa 10+ years ago at some places it was taught differently.

Try them both and I think they end up being the same. anybody have an mginction subscription? I remember Marcelo showing it to look where you roll.

 

[rmongler]

But only rickson and his followers claimed to have that particular nuance.

It's natural for people who, fearing lack of success in 'primary' avenues, to specialize into niches, in hopes of having a comparative advantage, to have something to offer, something that will let them say they are 'above average' or 'the best' at something.

If trap-and-roll was an essential component to competition success, you would surely see a wide array of high level competitors with nuanced and refined trap-and-roll mechanics.

However, a gameplan that would depend on regularly finding yourself in losing positions is a non-starter, obviously. Instead, what you will find amongst competitors is highly refined methods for preventing opponents from gaining positions where you are losing, in the first place, and indeed, highly refined methods for you to be the one sitting on someone in mount.

Hows Rickson's SLX game, anyways?