How did Hitler make such a great military, with no money? Did he prove Money is worthless?

[TheGreatA]

He had a good minister of finance and germany had lots of factories and skilled labor.
Any government can print as much money as they want to pay for these services, what matters is if it will bring something in return, if it doesn't they end up like venezuela.
Maduro gives people a lot of bolivars, they can't buy anything with these bolivars because there is nothing to buy(the country is not producing enough), you need millions of bolivars to buy a piece of bread.

Also he had a great minister of finances.

The soviet union was even more incredible, stalin had a rural communist economy and he industrialized it very quickly. In 1920 most of the population worked with horses and sickles at some small farm, in 1950~ they were launching satellites.

Stalin basically pulled a China. He opened borders and did business with various American industries, allowing them to build factories on USSR soil, until copying their work and kicking them out in favour of his own state-owned enterprises.

Or one should say, rather, that China is pulling a Stalin.

 

[KONE]

Didn't help the Kuomintang when they got routed by the CPC.

Chinese aren't capable of feeling anything

Doesn't count

 

[V-2]

What I think is craziest about Hitler's rise is that he built an entirely new national identity and had everyone full force behind it.

Like he made new flags, new uniforms, new salutes etc. if you were to visualize "German nationalism and strength" within 5 years it was completely new imagery. It wasn't even just a thing of changing a flag, and behaving the same, he had people proud of their aryan heritage. They went from the Weimar Republic praising sexual liberation and indulgence to fascism where everyone took pride in strength and power. The timeframe he did it in is incredible.

He was an evil monster but he was damn good at what he did

The bolded is critical and is apparent by the degree in which the populace supported the regime en masse not only during the 'economic miracle' and early war successes, but even through the overwhelming reversal of fortune and adversity experienced to the bitter end. Democracy never stood a chance with two massive crises sandwiched into a 13-year period.

The (populist) ethno-nationalist sentiment, massive doses of propaganda, placing of the interests of the country as a whole before those of municipalities, reduction of class distinction in both a monetary and humanitarian sense, full employment, massive public works, social services, family welfare, achievements in science and technology, pro-environmental legislation, emphasis on health and physical fitness, etc. all had a part to play in it.

An outfit like the Gestapo wouldn't even be able to function effectively without the cooperation if not collaboration of large segments of society and the scale in which the concentration camps were run - the first opening in 1933 no less - and Holocaust was carried out wouldn't of even been possible. Post-War, the Allies turned their heads to just how many people were down with the ideas of radical nationalism, autarky, racial hygiene, aggressive imperialist foreign policy and ultimately fucking genocide because a broken Germany is bad for business. A pastoral nation never, it's far too innovative.

Also he had a great minister of finances.

Indeed, he did. Unbelievably brilliant, actually.

 

[Gandhi]

Im sure there is an obvious answer to this but I thought it will make a good discussion.


I mean, Germany was fucked because of the treaty of versailles, and their military was stripped...How in the hell did he build up so fast? I would assume that he must of had money to build up that fast, where did he get it? Hell did he ever get money? Did he just decided to build up?



Also is the United States following this same strategy? Seems like Washington doesn't care about the debt, but with us having the largest military in the world....Could we really actually fall, I mean completely just become a failed state?

I mean, when you are the most powerful, who is gonna ask you for the debt?

Money is only worth what the productive capacity of the backing nation can produce. Germany had lots of capacity but they were paying so much out in reparations that massive money printing and inflation was impoverishing all and fucking up all price signals and in turn led to economic stagnation. All Hitler's had to do was stop paying and turn the economy inward and there was a boom. Now he stilled wasted a ton, much of the output was tanks and guns, which means less consumer goods produced.

 

[V-2]

 

[Phr3121]

I mean, Germany was fucked because of the treaty of versailles, and their military was stripped...How in the hell did he build up so fast?

Third Reich Interior Minister Wilhelm Frick introduced a wide variety of schemes in order to tackle the effects that the Great Depression had on Germany and was a key player of German rearmament policies. Dummy companies were set up to finance the rearmament. A large amount of money needed for the effort was made through the ‘Mefo bills’, a certain series of credit notes issued by the Government of Nazi Germany. The massive Nazi re-armament policy almost led to full employment during the 1930s. (very much like in the U.S. after entering the war) The re-armament began a sudden change in fortune for many factories in Germany. Many industries were taken out of a deep crisis that had been induced by the Great Depression.

This has been a concern of mine for a while, no country can afford to default the USA as the fallout economically would potentially be far worse than the outcome of not getting your money.

$6.2 trillion, or approximately 45%, of the debt held by the U.S. is owned by foreign investors, the largest of which is Japan and China. At about $1.09 trillion for Japan and $1.06 trillion for China as of December 2016.

I don't think we are going to have another debate anytime soon in the debate section of The War Room. Either way, I'll debate anyone on this topic: Germany could have won World War II. I will take the German side. Anyone who likes this topic is welcome to join in the discussion. We can go without judges & the rules. Any source on the internet can be used. I can open a new thread.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Stalin basically pulled a China. He opened borders and did business with various American industries, allowing them to build factories on USSR soil, until copying their work and kicking them out in favour of his own state-owned enterprises.

Or one should say, rather, that China is pulling a Stalin.

He also enslaved his population lol

 

[TheGreatA]

He also enslaved his population lol

They weren't enslaved. They were introduced to physical labour as a part of the re-education process.

 

[Phr3121]

In the end Adolf Hitler was the worst thing that could have happened to Nazi Germany. There are 7 things Germany could have done to win the War quickly, by at least 1943. Nazi Germany in many ways brought the United States out of the Depression in the early 1940s and turned it into the superpower it is today.

 

[mon]

Third Reich Interior Minister Wilhelm Frick introduced a wide variety of schemes in order to tackle the effects that the Great Depression had on Germany and was a key player of German rearmament policies. Dummy companies were set up to finance the rearmament. A large amount of money needed for the effort was made through the ‘Mefo bills’, a certain series of credit notes issued by the Government of Nazi Germany. The massive Nazi re-armament policy almost led to full employment during the 1930s. (very much like in the U.S. after entering the war) The re-armament began a sudden change in fortune for many factories in Germany. Many industries were taken out of a deep crisis that had been induced by the Great Depression.



$6.2 trillion, or approximately 45%, of the debt held by the U.S. is owned by foreign investors, the largest of which is Japan and China. At about $1.09 trillion for Japan and $1.06 trillion for China as of December 2016.

I don't think we are going to have another debate anytime soon in the debate section of The War Room. Either way, I'll debate anyone on this topic: Germany could have won World War II. I will take the German side. Anyone who likes this topic is welcome to join in the discussion. We can go without judges & the rules. Any source on the internet can be used. I can open a new thread.

Why the hell would I debate against "Germany could have won a world war" I agree 100%. Some blunders were made and I have always wandered if the drug use was partly to blame

 

[freakyfarley]

Didn't he also get financed by Dubya's grandpops?

 

[Phr3121]

Why the hell would I debate against "Germany could have won a world war" I agree 100%.

...but they could have lost for other reasons also, not the historical version. You can be on my team. I'm looking for someone to argue against the 7 points. It is all hypothetical anyway. You can't change history. Had Germany not invaded Poland in 1939, it would have thrived as a country. Much like the United States after 1945. Hitler would have been considered a hero and Germany would have been the most powerful country in Europe economically and militarily. Hitler fucked everything up from that point forward...he would have done better at the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna where he was rejected in 1907. Too bad he wasn't killed in WWI where he was wounded twice. We would have a very different world today.

 

[mon]

...but they could have lost for other reasons also, not the historical version. You can be on my team. I'm looking for someone to argue against the 7 points. It is all hypothetical anyway. You can't change history. Had Germany not invaded Poland in 1939, it would have thrived as a country. Much like the United States after 1945. Hitler would have been consider a hero and Germany would have been the most powerful country in Europe economically and militarily. Hitler fucked everything up from that point forward...he would have done better at the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna where he was rejected in 1907. Too bad he wasn't killed in WWI where he was wounded twice. We would have a very different world today.

Thanks I'm honoured but I spend far too much time on here already. This would take up a lot of time(a shit load really) and unless I'm emotionally invested in the topic I'm not really willing to use my time like that.

Thanks though and if I see the thread I'll probably have a read/random reply but this thread will be like asking how longs a piece of string.

Good luck

 

[Deffid]

...but they could have lost for other reasons also, not the historical version. You can be on my team. I'm looking for someone to argue against the 7 points. It is all hypothetical anyway. You can't change history. Had Germany not invaded Poland in 1939, it would have thrived as a country. Much like the United States after 1945. Hitler would have been considered a hero and Germany would have been the most powerful country in Europe economically and militarily. Hitler fucked everything up from that point forward...he would have done better at the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna where he was rejected in 1907. Too bad he wasn't killed in WWI where he was wounded twice. We would have a very different world today.

I'd like to hear the 7 points.

Won't argue against you because I also think that they could have won the war if they didn't fuck up some (or a lot of) things.

Also like @TheGreatA mentioned, the Wehrmacht wasn't anything special when the war started in 1939. Polands was worse, but France definitely could have won already with more modern tactics. In fact I heard that the "Heer" was supposed to be complete in 1942, the Luftwaffe and Marine even later (45 for Luftwaffe and close to 50 for Marine). Not sure if that is true, though.
But yeah, all these beastly tanks, jets, "special weapons" etc. were developed very late into the war. Too late and not enough in numbers.

 

[Offended]

Third Reich Interior Minister Wilhelm Frick introduced a wide variety of schemes in order to tackle the effects that the Great Depression had on Germany and was a key player of German rearmament policies. Dummy companies were set up to finance the rearmament. A large amount of money needed for the effort was made through the ‘Mefo bills’, a certain series of credit notes issued by the Government of Nazi Germany. The massive Nazi re-armament policy almost led to full employment during the 1930s. (very much like in the U.S. after entering the war) The re-armament began a sudden change in fortune for many factories in Germany. Many industries were taken out of a deep crisis that had been induced by the Great Depression.



$6.2 trillion, or approximately 45%, of the debt held by the U.S. is owned by foreign investors, the largest of which is Japan and China. At about $1.09 trillion for Japan and $1.06 trillion for China as of December 2016.

I don't think we are going to have another debate anytime soon in the debate section of The War Room. Either way, I'll debate anyone on this topic: Germany could have won World War II. I will take the German side. Anyone who likes this topic is welcome to join in the discussion. We can go without judges & the rules. Any source on the internet can be used. I can open a new thread.

Set your wishful thinking aside, lack of resources lower population incompetent allies Hitler being a fool.

Them winning is a fairy tale nothing more.

If war starts Sept 1939 they lose.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

Im sure there is an obvious answer to this but I thought it will make a good discussion.


I mean, Germany was fucked because of the treaty of versailles, and their military was stripped...How in the hell did he build up so fast? I would assume that he must of had money to build up that fast, where did he get it? Hell did he ever get money? Did he just decided to build up?



Also is the United States following this same strategy? Seems like Washington doesn't care about the debt, but with us having the largest military in the world....Could we really actually fall, I mean completely just become a failed state?

I mean, when you are the most powerful, who is gonna ask you for the debt?

He started printing his own money. How about you learn some history before posting or maybe just not post?

 

[robotsonic]

the crazy thing is dude got Time Man of the Year after violating the versailles treaty and repayment plans, took the Sudetenland and skodaworks and anschluz'd Austria....

perhaps that appeasement strategy would be interesting to reflect upon considering the leftist apologists over Islam and the refugee crises currently at hand. Kindness is absolutely taken for weakness, every time.

Time man of the year isn't an award, it's usually given to people who had the most effect on world politics, regardless of whether it was good or bad.

 

[Squarechoke]

I know they've been conditioned to be ashamed of Hitler, and the extremely quick turnaround from Nazism to full blown cuckoldry is actually something to behold, but uh... you can disavow Hitler and not let barbarians completely overrun Europe at the same time. It's very strange. Unfortunately, like I said, there's no end in sight for it. Hard to decide who is absolutely fucked beyond comprehension more between Germany, Sweden, France, and the UK.

Let's just wait until one of them reaches down to US levels in safety etc and call the winner then.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

...but they could have lost for other reasons also, not the historical version. You can be on my team. I'm looking for someone to argue against the 7 points. It is all hypothetical anyway. You can't change history. Had Germany not invaded Poland in 1939, it would have thrived as a country. Much like the United States after 1945. Hitler would have been considered a hero and Germany would have been the most powerful country in Europe economically and militarily. Hitler fucked everything up from that point forward...he would have done better at the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna where he was rejected in 1907. Too bad he wasn't killed in WWI where he was wounded twice. We would have a very different world today.

What are the points?

I'd like to hear the 7 points.

Won't argue against you because I also think that they could have won the war if they didn't fuck up some (or a lot of) things.

Also like @TheGreatA mentioned, the Wehrmacht wasn't anything special when the war started in 1939. Polands was worse, but France definitely could have won already with more modern tactics. In fact I heard that the "Heer" was supposed to be complete in 1942, the Luftwaffe and Marine even later (45 for Luftwaffe and close to 50 for Marine). Not sure if that is true, though.
But yeah, all these beastly tanks, jets, "special weapons" etc. were developed very late into the war. Too late and not enough in numbers.

I think it's an useless mental exercise. Germany could've won if they fought a perfect war while their enemies committed all the mistakes they did in real life. But every side commits some mistakes. What if Stalin didn't purge his best officers? What if France didn't surrender so quickly and didn't focus on defending static bunkers? What if the USA entered the war sooner.
All in all I think that Hitler and the general staff fought pretty well. Hitler did some mistakes later on but the war was lost by then.

Set your wishful thinking aside, lack of resources lower population incompetent allies Hitler being a fool.

Them winning is a fairy tale nothing more.

If war starts Sept 1939 they lose.

I don't think Hitler was worse than any other political leader at the time at conducting war.
Stalin was a fool for purging his officer corps.
Roosevelt got attacked with his pants down at Pearl Harbor.
Every side invested in useless weapons, Japan and the USA built big battleships that were never useful. The soviet union had 30,000 tanks, most of them light tanks that got destroyed very quickly. France invested billions in WW1 style forts and trenches. Britain was completely unprepared for war in 1940 and got routed in France.

Lack of resources and smaller population would probably doom the nazis though. While the soviet union defeated most of the german forces if they didn't succeed eventually America would. It would take a lot longer but as Germany was unable to invaded Britain they would get bombed into oblivion by american bombers without possibility of retaliation and eventually they would get nuked.
They never managed to capture the important oil sources in north africa, the middle east or the caucasus.

 

[vespasian]

, except instead of bridges, dams, and roads like FDR, .

False. The autobahn system was started under Hitler. So it was exactly like fdr.