How can anyone argue that Hoost is not the GOAT kickboxer?

Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by truthisfreedom, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. truthisfreedom

    truthisfreedom Purple Belt

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    I see alot of guys referencing other names as the GOAT kickboxer, and tbh it confuses the sh*t out of me.

    Only 2 fighters have won the K-1 championship 4 times.


    1 of them needed to be 2x the size of his opponents, and outweigh them by almost 100 lbs to do it.


    That leaves one person, Mr. Perfect.
    Closely followed by Aerts, Hari (as sh*tty of a person as he is).


    I know that people love to bring up his fights with Sapp, but those same people love to forget that Sapp could be very dangerous back then, and Hoost was the only fighter to fight him toe to toe, not run away from him the entire time like Crocop did, as much as I respect him.



    How can anyone LOGICALLY argue that Hoost is not the GOAT kickboxer?
     
  2. GloryOfIran

    GloryOfIran Green Belt

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    1 of those gp wins involvwd him getting destrpyed by bob sapp and getting a free pass twice. He also didnt win in Glory like Schilt.
     
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  3. Yodsanan

    Yodsanan K'FESTA.1

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    Because K1 Max exists.
     
  4. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    Because "GOAT" isn't limited to number of GP wins and whether or not you had a physical advantage. There is more to take into account. The career in it's entirety and the moments of accomplishment. There is room for argument.
     
  5. Julius_Caesar

    Julius_Caesar Brown Belt

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    Because Hoost is a heavyweight. If there is a clear GOAT in kickboxing history its Petrosyan. I think most people who understand kickboxing know this whether they admit it or not out of respect for the heavyweights.
     
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  6. Karaev fan

    Karaev fan Brown Belt

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    Been out of the forums for a while on account of work, but just had to reply to this.

    Limiting to HWs, I would actually say Hoost has the LEAST ground for being GOAT out of the trinity of Aerts, Schilt and Hoost.

    First lets take out the idea that he should somehow be judged on a curve because he was smaller than the average HW. If we're doing P4P adjustments, there is a host of non-HWs who deserve commendation based on their skill set.

    So how do we judge who's the best HW on an absolute level? The simplest way is to just see who was the most dominant fighter and that answer is easy. Schilt has the record on the most K-1 GP wins (4), the fastest GP win (all 1RKOs), and the longest K-1 win streak (13 fights). He was never eliminated from tournament contendership save by one man. K-1 actually had to go around promoting events around the concept of "Stop the Schilt" because his dominance was so assured. They had to make workarounds with the rules with clinch restrictions and then made a sub-100kg belt when those rules weren't enough to stop him from dominating the GPs.

    The other way you could consider "greatness" is to look at overall career accomplishments. Based on that, my own pick for greatest HW would be Peter Aerts. Not only did Aerts have a streak of dominance comparable with Schilt early in his career (e.g. 13 fight K-1 win streak, all 1RKO GP wins, consecutive GP wins), he also buttressed it with a long and storied career even after his physical peak. His first win over the #1 guy was against Maurice Smith in 1992 and his last was over Semmy Schilt in 2010 (though he came close in 2013 over Rico). 18 years he was a championship contender! He wasn't just the youngest K-1 champion, he fought long enough to become the oldest K-1 contender. And that time at the end of his career wasn't just empty cash grabs. He was a GP finalist in 2006, 2007 and 2010 with wins over both veterans like Semmy, Remy and Sefo as well as new gen guys like Saki, Teixeira and Zimmerman! Also worth noting that Aerts was the only guy to have a winning series vs Semmy (3-2) despite being so late in his career.

    Hoost was held up as the GOAT due only to a historical quirk. For years, he was the only 4 times GP winner so people said he had the most accomplishments. When Semmy won his 4th GP, they somehow tried to decry his accomplishments as if they weren't on the same level as Hoost's (as if being big in the HW division is some sort of moral flaw).

    That's built on the presumption that Hoost's 4th GP win was legitimate while Semmy's wasn't. Well Semmy won his 4th GP with 1RKOs over JLB, Remy and Badr. Hoost won his 4th after being eliminated from GP contention TWICE in a year. He lost the eliminator then got to fill in for Semmy when Semmy got injured. He lost the QFs but got to fill in for Sapp when Sapp couldn't continue. In the semis, he checked a Sefo kick and Sefo suffered a freak shin injury. In the finals, he was losing to JLB and JLB's arm gave out! How is a GP win that depends on losing twice but getting four opponent injuries thanks to a voodoo curse somehow legit?

    The answer is Semmy if you judge based on pure dominance and Aerts based on career accomplishments. Hoost was brilliant, but he's held up as a foil for Semmy haters not based on simple accomplishments.
     
  7. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    because everyone knows if you ask me it was DEKKERS end of story! :D
     
  8. nino

    nino Yellow Belt

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    Because Petrosyan is already the GOAT
     
  9. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    @Karaev fan nailed it. End of thread. Nothing more to see here folks...
     
  10. uptheirons!

    uptheirons! Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card Banned

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    Everything you wrote is true, except that Hoost was more technical and his style was easier on the eyes and more entertaining compared to Schilt, so it's easier to pick him.
     
  11. Sanchoy

    Sanchoy muay thai ownage

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    because of this

     
  12. truthisfreedom

    truthisfreedom Purple Belt

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    Sorry, but to discount the fact that Schilt was 2 times the size of all of his oppenents reeks of complete and utter bias.


    That fact CANNOT be overlooked, and it's the exact reason that there are weight classes in the UFC.

    Just imagine if GSP, or Silva were fighting guys who outweighed them by 100 lbs? That fact alone, disqualifies Schilt from being the GOAT kickboxer.
     
  13. Kassitus

    Kassitus Blue Belt

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    So why are the superheavyweights almost always defeated when facing the best heavyweights? Being big helps until you reach 240 lbs, after that it makes you worse.
     
  14. sangreporsangre

    sangreporsangre Gold Belt

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    So how come guys like HMC and Montanha Silva didn't have anywhere near the success that Semmy did? Shouldn't they have won multiple GPs since it's so easy for a giant to do it? Akebono outweighed a lot of K1 fighters, how come he didn't have any success?
     
  15. Broadcast

    Broadcast Black Belt

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    I don"t. Schilt is. Then Hoost. And only then Princey.
     
  16. Vaio

    Vaio Orange Belt

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    IMO, because guys like HMC, Silva, and Norte had very limited skills - way below average in addition to being slow and awkward. Semmy had more skills, but not nearly as much as Hoost or Aerts. I agree that Semmy's size was his main weapon, that along with his slightly above average skillset were just the right combination for him to be a winner. I also agree with those that say "if Semmy were 6' 2" and 240 lbs - he might not have had the success he did". I take nothing away from him - he is an all time great. JMHO.
     
  17. sangreporsangre

    sangreporsangre Gold Belt

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    Sure, which is why TS premise is pretty ridiculous. If it's so easy for these lumbering 7 footers to dominate K1, then the final Grand Prix would have been 8 giants every year. Semmy is an outlier. His size is a physical advantage to be sure, but what's important is how he made it work for him. Saying "if Semmy were 6'2" really is pointless imo. I think a much better hypothetical is "if Semmy was the exact same size but wasn't dedicated to his training the way he was he wouldn't have had the success he did".
     
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  18. Sunken

    Sunken Banned Banned

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    fixed much? a much too much ![​IMG]
     
  19. Kanka

    Kanka Brown Belt

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    Buakaw is GOAT in kickboxing
     
  20. Falconkick

    Falconkick A charming asshole

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    Agreed. Always been Hoost, Aerts, Le Banner and Hug for me
     

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