Historic Karate-Do training in Japan (with commentary)

[shinkyoku]

I still don't understand how no face punching is better than light contact bareknuckled. Like they do in JKA in Japan but continous

No face punches is a safety compromise. Some might say it is a bad compromise and I might even agree, but it was a choice made back in the 60ies. Still, compared to kickboxing and boxing, there simply are no punch drunk old "knockdown" karate fighters.

There is a reason knockdown karate type fighter walks through light contact fighters when they face under heavy contact rules. Any heavy contact rules. light contact is terrible preparation for anything heavier than light contact.

And there is a world of difference between first-touch tag fights and continuous fighting.
First touch rules originate in university karate clubs modifying kendo rules -"first hit wins" makes much more sense with swords than with fists. Only deluded and inexperienced fighters counts on a single hit, or even series of hits, cause a KO (you can certainly hope for it, -but never rely on it).

 

[spacetime]

No face punches is a safety compromise. Some might say it is a bad compromise and I might even agree, but it was a choice made back in the 60ies. Still, compared to kickboxing and boxing, there simply are no punch drunk old "knockdown" karate fighters.

There is a reason knockdown karate type fighter walks through light contact fighters when they face under heavy contact rules. Any heavy contact rules. light contact is terrible preparation for anything heavier than light contact.

And there is a world of difference between first-touch tag fights and continuous fighting.
First touch rules originate in university karate clubs modifying kendo rules -"first hit wins" makes much more sense with swords than with fists. Only deluded and inexperienced fighters counts on a single hit, or even series of hits, cause a KO (you can certainly hope for it, -but never rely on it).

I agree the stop-format is in many ways silly but techniques are scored better this way, at least in theory. It doesn't turn into a brawl as much as continous, full contact sports. Compare WKF guys with Kyokushin-Kais... WKF guys appear much more technically refined due to the format that only awards points to proper technique.

My suggestion is have it semi contact to the face bareknuckled but contious, problem solved. There will be nose bleed and stuff but hardly more than that.

 

[spacetime]

Still, compared to kickboxing and boxing, there simply are no punch drunk old "knockdown" karate fighters.

There wouldn't be any with continous semi contact either... Even bareknuckled

 

[AshiharaFan]

Seidokan tournaments have gloves added and face punching allowed in the event of a draw. Are they doing boxing?

When the competitors in Seidokaikan competitions don boxing gloves the fighters look like sloppy, amateurish kickboxers.

If boxing gloves change technique, how is it that boxers shadow
box bareknuckled? Hmmm..

I think you know full well that you are taking that statement out of context. Boxing gloves change the technique of KARATE!! A fighter is very limited in what hand techniques he can utilize while wearing boxing gloves compared to not wearing boxing gloves. And it should be obvious why boxers shadow box bareknuckled; because they are only practicing the hand techniques that can be thrown while wearing boxing gloves. So nothing changes and their bread and butter is not affected at all.

Not true. Mas Oyama beat boxers, wrestlers, Muay Thai guys etc with his Karate in no holding barred fights.

Really? Do you have solid proof of this? Links? Documentation? I am (embarrassingly) aware of his participation in a couple of worked fights with pro wrestlers. Now THAT is documented.

It is well documented. Mas Oyama kicked the wrestler in the balls. Kyokushinbudokai is surely even better since it combines striking with groundgame grappling.

I don't know if the kick in the balls was real or fake but you're most likely referring to one of those worked matches I am talking about.

Btw, Sosai Oyama never ran a Dojang; he ran a DOJO.

 

[spacetime]

When the competitors in Seidokaikan competitions don boxing gloves the fighters look like sloppy, amateurish kickboxers.



I think you know full well that you are taking that statement out of context. Boxing gloves change the technique of KARATE!! A fighter is very limited in what hand techniques he can utilize while wearing boxing gloves compared to not wearing boxing gloves. And it should be obvious why boxers shadow box bareknuckled; because they are only practicing the hand techniques that can be thrown while wearing boxing gloves. So nothing changes and their bread and butter is not affected at all.



Really? Do you have solid proof of this? Links? Documentation? I am (embarrassingly) aware of his participation in a couple of worked fights with pro wrestlers. Now THAT is documented.



I don't know if the kick in the balls was real or fake but you're most likely referring to one of those worked matches I am talking about.

Btw, Sosai Oyama never ran a Dojang; he ran a DOJO.

So Mas Oyamas reputation as the first Karateka to beat a Muay Thai fighter is fabricated? Can you prove that?

 

[AshiharaFan]

So Mas Oyamas reputation as the first Karateka to beat a Muay Thai fighter is fabricated? Can you prove that?

You got it backwards my friend. It should be you proving that he did and that is done via news press (with pictures and/or video footage) or another credible means of documentation. Stories and legendary lore by students and admirers don't substitute for verifiable documentation and actual footage. Same goes for his 300 Man Kumite.

 

[spacetime]

You got it backwards my friend. It should be you proving that he did and that is done via news press (with pictures and/or video footage) or another credible means of documentation. Stories and legendary lore by students and admirers don't substitute for verifiable documentation and actual footage. Same goes for his 300 Man Kumite.

I agree. But beating a Nak Muay is not exactly a fantastic feat. I don't see why someone would make that up. His own fighters beat them.

 

[AshiharaFan]

I agree. But beating a Nak Muay is not exactly a fantastic feat. I don't see why someone would make that up. His own fighters beat them.

Three of his fighters fought against nak Muay which is documented. There is ZERO documentation of him ever doing so because it never happened. It's as simple as that.