[Historians] Battles worth studying?

If you want to learn about ancient Egypt battles check out the Battle of Kadesh. Hittite vs Egypt. It was during Ramesses the seconds reign in 1274.
It's a one sided account but it's the most detailed we have. They've found the peace treaties for each side, they're the oldest examples we know of. There was a recorded race of people that were allied with the Hittites called the Sea Peoples that Egypt didn't know who they were and we still don't know.
 
Vets of the Frozen Chosin will tell you they didn't retreat, they simply fought in a different direction.

As the old joke goes,

"US Marines do not retreat - they Advance in Reverse!"
 
Hannibal's victory at the battle of Cannae. IMO one of the best, if not best, displays of military leadership in a battle.

Holy shit yes! The Battle of Cannae between Hannibal and Rome is absolutely insane. That man stood toe to toe against a larger Roman force and beat with a slow retreat. Sometimes I wonder what it must have looked like. Cannae was a bloodbath.

Can youmagine being in the middle of that Roman formation watching that slaughter approach you all afternoon?
 
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Holy shit yes! The Battle of Cannae between Hannibal and Rome is absolutely insane. That man stood toe to toe against a larger Roman force and beat with a slow retreat. Sometimes I wonder what it must have looked like. Cannae was a bloodbath.

Can youmagine being in the middle of that Roman formation watching that slaughter approach you all afternoon?
Cannae is the example of generalship to which all others are inevitably compared. Hannibal's entire Italian campaign was a doomed mission executed so magnificently that he almost pulled off the impossible.
 
Cannae is the example of generalship to which all others are inevitably compared. Hannibal's entire Italian campaign was a doomed mission executed so magnificently that he almost pulled off the impossible.

Let's not exaggerate.

He was never have been able to mount a serious threat to Rome and without taking Rome he had no chance of ending the war. At the same time Hannibal was marauding around Italy most of Rome's best leaders and armies were in Spain and Africa you know winning the war.

Hannibal shares a lot with Lee. Many great victories, but no hope of victory. Hannibal literally just didn't have the equipment necessary to take on a real siege.
 
Let's not exaggerate.

He was never have been able to mount a serious threat to Rome and without taking Rome he had no chance of ending the war. At the same time Hannibal was marauding around Italy most of Rome's best leaders and armies were in Spain and Africa you know winning the war.

Hannibal shares a lot with Lee. Many great victories, but no hope of victory. Hannibal literally just didn't have the equipment necessary to take on a real siege.
Dunno about no chance
We know the next 2 consols (forget names just nicknames) led a large force out ...the infamous 'swordand shield' of rome matched hannibal in a game of manuever ...deeply unpopular at the time the eldest one held firm to the policy of shadowing hanibals army but no direct battles which history proved to be the correct course of action and shaped roman military strategy vs hanibal for all his time in italy

A more agressive consol could have led the green force into a major set piece battle and itd have been a slaughter, we know some roman italian allies were swayed by cannae so a 2nd cannae could have unravelled it all esp if theyd never taken up the policy of avoiding direct battle with hanibal (robbing him of his only path to win )
Scipio might not have been given his chance to shine in spain as he did if that had occured
 
You mentioned it, Hannibal's victory at Cannae is THE archetypical pincer movement.

For a more modern perspective the battle of isandlwana. Fought in 1878 just before the dawn of the modern (20th century) age. A state of the art British column being completely massacred by Stone Age equiped Zulu's. A fascinating lesson in hubris.
 
The fall of Constantinople in 1453. This was what the last battle in Lord of the Rings was based on.

This is probably the most significant battle in Greek history. For the Greeks this is dearer to our heart than anything else. This was the true end of the Roman and Byzantine Empire, the first 'true' time the Queen of All Cities fell (lets pretend the Latins didn't take it in their betrayal for story purposes). The loss of the city signified 400 years of enslavement by the Turks.

Constantinople was the center of the world since Ancient times to the end of the Middle Ages. All other cities, whether they be German, French or English were dwarfed by its beauty. The city still had aqueducts, ancient palaces and a hippodrome (even though it was in poor state). Its greatest buildings however were Hagia Sophia (the center of the Christian world) and its legendary walls, which neither Hun, Arab or Mongol had managed to breach. Most believed they were unbreakable.

The Turks attack with a force that immensely outnumbered the Greeks. Their Sultan had constructed a huge fleet, assembled elite Janissary (Greek boys kidnapped at birth and turned into super Muslim warriors). The most impressive part of his army was the great cannons he forged for the battle, that alone required an army of oxen to bring to the battle. This cannon was so expensive Constantinople could not even manage to build it. It tore apart the walls. It eventually exploded destroying its creator. They also built the worlds largest (and last) siege tower, which also failed to breach the legendary walls.

The defence was led by the legendary last Emperor Constantine XI. A pious man, who died in the same vein as King Leonidas. He died in a heroic last stand, when he tore off his imperial regalia and charged into Turkish Horde with his last body guard. He had lived an unfortunate life, trying his hardest to preserve the Empire but was met with an incredible amount of bad luck. He is remembered with great reverence in Greece and is basically now a Saint.

Other cool facts:

- Brave Geonese from Chios decide to stand with the Emperor. Justiani died fighting on the walls, and in the dying hours of the Empire the Latin Western and Greek East had reforged.

- The Muslim's said a lunar eclipse would occur to signify the fall of the city. This did occur which caused great anxiety to the citizens in the city.

- A strange light was seen at the top of Hagia Sophia by both Greek and Turk. The Greeks saw this as a bad omen, that the Holy Spirit was leaving the city, signifying their impending doom.

- The Greeks maintain Constantine will return, and that he was buried under the Golden Gate by an angel petrified in marble. His return will liberate the city. The Turks were very superstitious of this omen and buried ancient Egyptian mummies in the walls to cancel out the curse. Greeks have said they have heard the whispers of the Emperor near the Golden Gate.

Yes the fall of Constantinople was an epic but sad end to the Roman Empire. If only they still had the mighty varangian guard to protect them (who famously cut a path out of the city, after a spirited defence, when it fell in the 4th crusade). Constantine's heroic last stand at the walls can bring tears to my eyes just thinking about it, Rome falling with its emperor fighting to the last with sword and shield.

Whenever I'm told to call Ayers Rock "Uluru" (its aboriginal name) I always counter with "well you better call Istanbul Constantinople!"

At least the fall enabled the west to rediscover the classical texts that spurned the renaissance and enlightenment, Ancient Greece and Rome living on in Europe and England.
 
Not a specific battle but the Sea Peoples have always interested me. We still don't know who they were or where they came from. All we know is they arrive in Egypt by boat and kicked ass a couple of times during the 19th & 20th Dynasties. They can be contributed with having a large part of the fall of the great Egyptian Dynasties.
A lot of the later battles are inscribed on temple walls. They fucked up the Hittites also.
 
IMO the battle of Marathon is worth checking out.

A vastly outnumbered (Herodotos claims 20 to 1 ; more realisticly it is 2 or 3 to 1) but ballsy athenian army goes all in and charges the Persian forces and wrecks them.
 
I've been studying modern cessation/revolution movements for a few months now, the Balkans has been my main interest thus far.

Check out the Siege of Sarajevo to start.
 
I've been studying modern cessation/revolution movements for a few months now, the Balkans has been my main interest thus far.

Check out the Siege of Sarajevo to start.

I would get a good deal of context first about the Balkan conflicts though.

Whoops, meant to edit, not quote myself.
 
Yes the fall of Constantinople was an epic but sad end to the Roman Empire. If only they still had the mighty varangian guard to protect them (who famously cut a path out of the city, after a spirited defence, when it fell in the 4th crusade). Constantine's heroic last stand at the walls can bring tears to my eyes just thinking about it, Rome falling with its emperor fighting to the last with sword and shield.

Whenever I'm told to call Ayers Rock "Uluru" (its aboriginal name) I always counter with "well you better call Istanbul Constantinople!"

At least the fall enabled the west to rediscover the classical texts that spurned the renaissance and enlightenment, Ancient Greece and Rome living on in Europe and England.

Excellent post! I agree there is a lot of hypocrisy in the world in regards to the way the Turks treat the native minorities of their current territories. Whether it be Greek, Armenian or Kurd they are treated like shit and the world doesn't give a fuck.

Constantine is considered a saint by many Greeks today. There are many poems written about him.

This song titled the Marble King is quite emotional. I know it is in Greek but you still get a feel for what they are singing about.
 
Nice thread. My favorite era for battles is early Rome because it's easy to understand. Alesia was just phenomenal, by both sides.
 
Lots of good examples given here.

Hastings is a good one (really shows you the diffrent streghts of the anglosaxon forces when compared to the more advanced norman troops). Also its a rare medieval battle for lasting and entire day opposite of the usual couple of hours and pursua that follows. Actually the whole war is damn interesting.

Also I suggest looking at the battle of panipat. Muslim conqueror attacks india with technological advantages and faces 200 000 afgan warriors (he has roughly 35 000). The mixture of diffrent time period troops(horse archers, melee troops, rifle men, elephants etc) used just rightly to destroy much larger army.
 
I'm going to give you two battles that are vastly underrated, because they're virtually unknown, especially the first, because it happened in medieval Korea.

The battle of Myeongnyang: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Myeongnyang

Admiral Yi Sun Sin led 12 or 13 ships (all that remained of the Korean fleet) against a Japanese armada of over three hundred ships in defense of a pass that kept the Japanese from accessing Korea's west coast, which they need to supply their troops and to capture the Korean capital of Hanyang (modern day Seoul). Yi won the battle without losing a single ship, using the coastal terrain and the current to his advantage.

Yi was undefeated in naval warfare, in spite of never training on the sea until a year before the Japanese invasion. In naval warfare circles, he is considered equal, or sometimes superior to, Lord Nelson.




The battle of Taranto: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Myeongnyang

The British navy attacked a fortified Italian harbor containing the bulk of it's fleet using 24 Fairey Swordfish, biplane torpedo bombers that were already outdated when they entered service. The results were one battle ship damaged boy eons repair, and two more ship damaged. The result was a turning point in the Mediterranean theater, but longer term effects were numerous: this battle marked the new era of naval aviation and the aircraft carrier. Even bigger, to the Japanese and Americans: Taranto was the inspiration for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, using similar tactics.
 
Yes the fall of Constantinople was an epic but sad end to the Roman Empire. If only they still had the mighty varangian guard to protect them (who famously cut a path out of the city, after a spirited defence, when it fell in the 4th crusade). Constantine's heroic last stand at the walls can bring tears to my eyes just thinking about it, Rome falling with its emperor fighting to the last with sword and shield.

Whenever I'm told to call Ayers Rock "Uluru" (its aboriginal name) I always counter with "well you better call Istanbul Constantinople!"

At least the fall enabled the west to rediscover the classical texts that spurned the renaissance and enlightenment, Ancient Greece and Rome living on in Europe and England.

Never really thoughts too much about this. What is the 1 (b/c I am not taking an undergrad course!) book you would recommend on the battle, which woudl also contain a solid prelude/context?

thanks
 
The 30 year was was pretty cool
 
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