Heavy lifting & Jiu Jitsu

[grecobjj]

Does anyone here lift heavy 2-3 times a week? I don't lift to compliment my game at all, I just want to get stronger. I suppose what I am asking is how do you guys deal with the soreness? Like If I do a big leg day, or have a heavy dead lifting session, my body is so damn sore, it makes rolling uncomfortable and stiff. Anyone else have this issue?

Thread turned into an exercise in stupidity.
Yeah I'm kinda going through same shit (recently made my way back to mats after a lengthy layoff and trying to figure out how to balance gym&bjj)
Personally what seems to help/benefit/not completelyfuckmeup is
Alternating days of
Power clean& push press 80-85% 10 sets 2 reps
And
LISS cardio 20-40mins

Both seem to help with the bjj
*on the mats min. 4days a week

 

[SAMURAI SPIRIT]

Does anyone here lift heavy 2-3 times a week? I don't lift to compliment my game at all, I just want to get stronger. I suppose what I am asking is how do you guys deal with the soreness? Like If I do a big leg day, or have a heavy dead lifting session, my body is so damn sore, it makes rolling uncomfortable and stiff. Anyone else have this issue?

I do. I have found the best way to deal with this is to lift 2 X Week. My training split looks like this:

Saturday: Chest Triceps and Shoulders
Sunday: Back Biceps and Legs
Monday: OFF / Rest
Tuesday: BJJ
Wednesday: Swimming
Thursday: BJJ
Friday: BJJ Open Mat

If I need to up my BJJ days or cardio / swimming then this would become one day weight lifting in which I will do squat, deadlift, bench and shoulder press.

 

[TehGwarch]

Dude why do you keeping saying that someone is gonna get fat by following a powerlifting program, that is nonsense. If you keep your calorie intake in check, regardless of your lifting program, you won't gain weight.

SS does not recommend a low calorie diet and strength training does not burn much fat since it's not tearing down the muscle tissue, it's training the nervous system.

With linear progression you'll hit a wall pretty fast unless you stuff your face a little.

With a combination bodybuilding/powerlifting approach you can blast through that wall by gaining muscle, I can lose fat simultaneously because the metabolic stimulus is very good.

The best muscle gaining program is also the best fat burning program. You want a Sage Northcutt physique? This will do it.

I only put this out there because I notice at the tournaments most in the BJJ community are weak and have a skinny fat body. 80% of are carrying tons of fat with negligible muscle.

This goes for pro MMA fighters too, lot's of fat boys with skinny arms who run around for days and never lose the spare tire.

What ever most people do, it sucks shit through a straw. This sport has weight classes. Stop being fat!

 

[TehGwarch]

Your program is mostly compound lifts? Literally, your "leg day" had one set of squats, one set of deads, and three sets of calf raises - lol. You then talk about a ridiculous 2 second of negative, with one second pause.

You keep rambling about Starting Strength. I specifically said that I don't think a BJJ guy with time issues should do Starting Strength. Why you keep bringing up Starting Strength when retorting to my posts is beyond me. You are wrong though, I personally know a lot of people who started with Starting Strength that are putting up really good #s now.

The funny thing is that your argument about stretch reflex is completely wrong in regards to squats. The most dangerous portion of a squat is down in the hole. Pausing for a second in the hold for a beginner is an absolute horrible idea. Taking 2 seconds on the descent is ridiculous and nonsense too. There is a reason that wraps were invented - they actually promote the stretch reflex.

And if we are talking about people looking skinny fat and weak at a gym, my guess is that you'll find a lot more people skinny fat without putting much weight on the bar doing bodypart splits they find in mens health.

Also, lol at only needing to lift your opponents bodyweight. Yes, everyone competing at 200 lbs or less should stop with 200 lbs on the bar. Here's a news flash for you - the guy that deadlifts 500 lbs is going to be deadlifting 200 lbs very fast and for a lot of reps.

Are you upset? You seem sexually frustrated. lol

 

[TehGwarch]

Here's a blogger who reviewed both Starting Strength and Serge Nubret's bodybuilding routine..

I'll let you figure out which is which physique is better for a grappler and which one you'd rather have.

Here is his review of Starting Strength routine and his results. He made many of the same points I raised...
http://skinnyfattransformation.com/why-you-shouldnt-do-starting-strength-as-a-beginner/

Here is the Serge Nubret workout review.
http://skinnyfattransformation.com/serge-nubret-pump-training/

 

[jack36767]

SS does not recommend a low calorie diet and strength training does not burn much fat since it's not tearing down the muscle tissue, it's training the nervous system.

With linear progression you'll hit a wall pretty fast unless you stuff your face a little.

With a combination bodybuilding/powerlifting approach you can blast through that wall by gaining muscle, I can lose fat simultaneously because the metabolic stimulus is very good.

The best muscle gaining program is also the best fat burning program. You want a Sage Northcutt physique? This will do it.

I only put this out there because I notice at the tournaments most in the BJJ community are weak and have a skinny fat body. 80% of are carrying tons of fat with negligible muscle.

This goes for pro MMA fighters too, lot's of fat boys with skinny arms who run around for days and never lose the spare tire.

What ever most people do, it sucks shit through a straw. This sport has weight classes. Stop being fat!

In line with our earlier conversation. I have come to the firm and convicted belief that "low gear" strength is completely underrated. Focusing on low gear strength, Heavy deadlifts for low reps, heavy perfect pull-up for low reps, and shoulder press etc. (Pavel type stuff). Benefited my grappling/wrestling more in less year than literally years of cleans, push press, plyometrics etc.

I think the explosive lifts are way overrated and that especially for the average joe or hobbyist practical slow strength will benefit all round. Doing explosive lifts without a good coach to teach it or with a dumbass crossfit dude us a recipe for getting hurt

 

[freakroor]

Maybe you're a 135lb girly man who wants to stop getting smashed in the gym by 225lb white belts or finally get laid without paying..

. No.

 

[GalegoREB]

SS does not recommend a low calorie diet and strength training does not burn much fat since it's not tearing down the muscle tissue, it's training the nervous system.

With linear progression you'll hit a wall pretty fast unless you stuff your face a little.

With a combination bodybuilding/powerlifting approach you can blast through that wall by gaining muscle, I can lose fat simultaneously because the metabolic stimulus is very good.

This isn't bodybuilding, combat sports athletes want to get as light as possible while maintaining or increasing strength and no one besides novices can effectively gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Your type of program is basically the tempo method which focus on the grow of slow twitch fibers. It's a legit way to increase muscle endurance but the increase in maximal strength will be negligible.

 

[TehGwarch]

This isn't bodybuilding, combat sports athletes want to get as light as possible while maintaining or increasing strength and no one besides novices can effectively gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Your type of program is basically the tempo method which focus on the grow of slow twitch fibers. It's a legit way to increase muscle endurance but the increase in maximal strength will be negligible.

No, I train all the muscle fiber types in this workout, that is the point.

If you just have to bounce the bar off your chest on the first set to feel like a man, be my guest tarzan. lol

Incline Bench 4-8
Dips/Decline 8-12
Dumbell Flye 12-16

You will gain more strength on this workout because you'll put on muscle and lose fat as you train your CNS. That's why it's better than most.

And yes it can be done and recomposition works, especially with today's technology it's super easy. The blogger I posted above did it, Serge Nubret did it.

I never bulk/cut. My bodyweight stays the same as I lose fat. The muscle gain CAUSES the fat loss, that's what you are missing.

I am trading fat for lean muscle and improving body composition, my diet most of the time sucks. I could never eat brown rice. lol

My idea of a diet is " stop drinking so many sodas".

 

[TehGwarch]

Here's my opinion but "explosive" spazzy guys usually suck at jiu-jitsu. You'll win some comps sure, but you still suck. lol

Out maneuvering and overpowering your opponent will not work forever. BJJ is not really an explosive sport, diarrhea maybe but not BJJ. I see guys with this style a lot but training yourself to spaz harder and longer is not always the answer.

You don't need to bench or even squat 3 plates to be good at BJJ and you should not be carrying extra fat to achieve these pointless goals.

For a grappler, grappling comes first and the most important thing is to weigh in with low bodyfat and "good enough" strength. I'd say cardio is most important.

But you WILL get strong as a brick shithouse on this program...probably stronger than the guy who invent 5x5 and only bench 240. lol

 

[GalegoREB]

No, I train all the muscle fiber types in this workout, that is the point.

If you just have to bounce the bar off your chest on the first set to feel like a man, be my guest tarzan. lol

Incline Bench 4-8
Dips/Decline 8-12
Dumbell Flye 12-16

You will gain more strength on this workout because you'll put on muscle and lose fat as you train your CNS. That's why it's better than most.

And yes it can be done and recomposition works, especially with today's technology it's super easy. The blogger I posted above did it, Serge Nubret did it.

I never bulk/cut. My bodyweight stays the same as I lose fat. The muscle gain CAUSES the fat loss, that's what you are missing.

Lol most of your affirmations are in complete contraction with the current sports training knowledge. Bro science at is best

 

[Kirra]

Here's a blogger who reviewed both Starting Strength and Serge Nubret's bodybuilding routine..

I'll let you figure out which is which physique is better for a grappler and which one you'd rather have.

Here is his review of Starting Strength routine and his results. He made many of the same points I raised...
http://skinnyfattransformation.com/why-you-shouldnt-do-starting-strength-as-a-beginner/

Here is the Serge Nubret workout review.
http://skinnyfattransformation.com/serge-nubret-pump-training/

That guy didn't do the program. You can't do Starting Strength properly for 12 months unless you are some insane athletic freak. You're gonna be adding 7.5lbs to your squat and deadlift a week, this means almost 400lbs over 12 months. This guy added roughly half of that.

So either he was taking breaks or he wasn't adding weight when he should have. And I have to remind you, SS is a program that is meant to get a weight lifting beginner stronger as fast as possible. It's in the name ffs. Looks like it did just that, cos even tho he didn't add as much weight as he should have, those numbers are still pretty impressive. You're not gonna see that many people deadlifting 350 within their first year of lifting.

Besides, those progress pics are from 7 and 12 months into the program. Why doesn't he show a day 1 picture?

 

[outonbail]

Allright folks, get your milkshake, add some protein and read up.

In my opinion EVERYONE should do heavy lifting for the sake of making the body strong & functionable and have a good posture.

This will prevent alot of injuries and freakazoid shit in training.

IF you do not know where to start, I recommend starting strength or strong lifts to ANYONE who is able to do a decent resting squat, as in being able to sit in a squat with upright back for several minutes. IF you can NOT do this, work on your mobility first for some weeks BEFORE starting heavy lifting.

You are able to do this? PERFECT. now we can move on

First rule of a weightlifting program, do NOT fuck up the program
you going to have 36 days in 12 weeks, so 3 days/week, do not ALTER this, do your workouts like you are supposed to do them
In 36 days, you will bench press 18x, squat 36x and deadlift 18x, and do the other lifts 18x (OHP,Bent over row or whatever depending on which program exactly)

I would suggest everyone starting with 5x5 and not 3x5, why? because you are a newbie. more sets mean more reps in total, means more practicing the technique. This is what the program is all about, BUILD base strength and LEARN the lifts

For MALES who have never lifted before I suggest the following start weights for the big 3

Bench : 40kg ( end goal without failure 85kg)
Squat : 40kg ( end goal without failure 130kg, you will probably not reach this)
Deadlift : 60kg ( end goal without failure 150kg, depending on how you are build you may or may not reach this)

OHP, Bent Over Row, I like to keep this at respectively 60% and 75% of my bench)

Once you have completed your 3 months of training, I would down it to 3x5 ( still 1x5 for Deadlift) and work with micro increments for another 3 months with assistance work
--- LOWER AB WORKOUTS--ROLLOUTS--PLANKS
--BRIDGE WORK

Afterwards, do whatever you feel like.

IF YOU ARE TO SORE, SKIP JIU JITSU, SORENESS WILL GO AWAY AFTER THE FIRST 3-4 SQUAT WORKOUTS

After 6 months you will probably gained around 4-5kg without even trying, have a good base layer of strength, feel better, and need to recheck what you need to improve more?

you will probably NOT look to higher your strength numbers much more of competing in jiu jitsu is you focus.

Flexibility ? more stretching, loaded stretching
Mobility? Look into Olympic lifting, front squatting.

Check out some youtube channels like elliot hulse, omar isuf. They have great material for athletes.

 

[jack36767]

Allright folks, get your milkshake, add some protein and read up.

In my opinion EVERYONE should do heavy lifting for the sake of making the body strong & functionable and have a good posture.

This will prevent alot of injuries and freakazoid shit in training.

IF you do not know where to start, I recommend starting strength or strong lifts to ANYONE who is able to do a decent resting squat, as in being able to sit in a squat with upright back for several minutes. IF you can NOT do this, work on your mobility first for some weeks BEFORE starting heavy lifting.

You are able to do this? PERFECT. now we can move on

First rule of a weightlifting program, do NOT fuck up the program
you going to have 36 days in 12 weeks, so 3 days/week, do not ALTER this, do your workouts like you are supposed to do them
In 36 days, you will bench press 18x, squat 36x and deadlift 18x, and do the other lifts 18x (OHP,Bent over row or whatever depending on which program exactly)

I would suggest everyone starting with 5x5 and not 3x5, why? because you are a newbie. more sets mean more reps in total, means more practicing the technique. This is what the program is all about, BUILD base strength and LEARN the lifts

For MALES who have never lifted before I suggest the following start weights for the big 3

Bench : 40kg ( end goal without failure 85kg)
Squat : 40kg ( end goal without failure 130kg, you will probably not reach this)
Deadlift : 60kg ( end goal without failure 150kg, depending on how you are build you may or may not reach this)

OHP, Bent Over Row, I like to keep this at respectively 60% and 75% of my bench)

Once you have completed your 3 months of training, I would down it to 3x5 ( still 1x5 for Deadlift) and work with micro increments for another 3 months with assistance work
--- LOWER AB WORKOUTS--ROLLOUTS--PLANKS
--BRIDGE WORK

Afterwards, do whatever you feel like.

IF YOU ARE TO SORE, SKIP JIU JITSU, SORENESS WILL GO AWAY AFTER THE FIRST 3-4 SQUAT WORKOUTS

After 6 months you will probably gained around 4-5kg without even trying, have a good base layer of strength, feel better, and need to recheck what you need to improve more?

you will probably NOT look to higher your strength numbers much more of competing in jiu jitsu is you focus.

Flexibility ? more stretching, loaded stretching
Mobility? Look into Olympic lifting, front squatting.

Check out some youtube channels like elliot hulse, omar isuf. They have great material for athletes.

Great stuff completely agree. I just prefer pull-ups to bent rows

 

[selfcritical]

If you are doing LBBS, per SS, your hamstrings and glutes will get massive, not your quads

Eh. Knee extension is the largest driver in a competent squatter (the legs must get straight to complete the lift) Hamstrings are antagonistic to that action, and even in the low bar squat, activation will be minor compared to a deadlift. Rip may say it's so, but no EMG studies back him up, and the portion of the squat where the knees travel forward while the hips extend is vanishingly small. By contrast, the part of the lift where knee extension is needed to move the weight upward is....almost the entire lift.

 

[TehGwarch]

Lol most of your affirmations are in complete contraction with the current sports training knowledge. Bro science at is best

Bodybuilders have been doing it since the '70s. They call it "growing into the show".

Maybe you should try it if you are scrawny or fat and weak. If you are already Greek god and you want to do something else then good for you, like I care. lol

Most of these guys you like so much look like shit and are pretty weak. I would only take their advice on study skills, the best pocket protector and how to be virgin until 30.

Honestly I hope you don't use it because I want you to be a nerdy little fatass reading studies.

 

[TehGwarch]

That guy didn't do the program. You can't do Starting Strength properly for 12 months unless you are some insane athletic freak. You're gonna be adding 7.5lbs to your squat and deadlift a week, this means almost 400lbs over 12 months. This guy added roughly half of that.

So either he was taking breaks or he wasn't adding weight when he should have. And I have to remind you, SS is a program that is meant to get a weight lifting beginner stronger as fast as possible. It's in the name ffs. Looks like it did just that, cos even tho he didn't add as much weight as he should have, those numbers are still pretty impressive. You're not gonna see that many people deadlifting 350 within their first year of lifting.

Besides, those progress pics are from 7 and 12 months into the program. Why doesn't he show a day 1 picture?

Go back and read the whole post or don't bother me. It was all explained why it was that long.

Maybe it was because he didn't think to take a day 1, he just started training. lol

But you saw the results from his current program was much better. He uses body weight combined with an abbreviated version of Serge Nubret's program.

The kid looks great for his poor genetics and solid base to compete in ANYTHING, including BJJ, he would have no problems. I don't really advocate this one but it can work.

I was injured for a period of time and could not handle heavy weight at all. I did this program and it improved my strength on the mat and body comp even though I was lifting light weights.

Serge himself benched 500 weighing only 200lbs with no PL training whatsoever. There's more than one way to get strong.

BJJ is more of an endurance sport than strength anyway, you are less likely to be injured and it allows you to still lift if you have bad or sore joints.

 

[GalegoREB]

Bodybuilders have been doing it since the '70s. They call it "growing into the show".

Maybe you should try it if you are scrawny or fat and weak. If you are already Greek god and you want to do something else then good for you, like I care. lol

Most of these guys you like so much look like shit and are pretty weak. I would only take their advice on study skills, the best pocket protector and how to be virgin until 30.

Honestly I hope you don't use it because I want you to be a nerdy little fatass reading studies.

 

[These Two Hands]

Hey Gwarch any chance you know what Nubret's abdominal routine actually was? I got curious, but everything I tried searching just comes up with the rest of his routine and briefly mentions how much time he spent on his abs. Makes me wonder what actual exercises he did, so I thought I'd ask.

 

[TehGwarch]

Hey Gwarch any chance you know what Nubret's abdominal routine actually was? I got curious, but everything I tried searching just comes up with the rest of his routine and briefly mentions how much time he spent on his abs. Makes me wonder what actual exercises he did, so I thought I'd ask.

He did 2000 situps every morning non-stop, that was his cardio. 1 hour straight. lol

His rest periods in between sets were often 15-30 seconds. Very fast pace.

As an aside to skeptics...

Let's see...guy can do situps for an hour straight without gassing, benches max 500 and weights 200, can do 8 sets of 12 with 225 or 265 lbs on the bench or squat respectively with 15-30 seconds rest between sets.

How would you feel standing across from this guy before the tournament? Assuming he's got skills. lol

Or a guy who sits on the bench with his iphone for 3-5 minutes in between sets of 5. lol