HEAD MOOMENT!!! Part 2: Adapting for MMA | Page 2

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by a guy, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    That's a great example of proactive head movement and being aware of what position you're putting yourself in. You will run into danger against a high-level opponent who picks up on it. It's a smart idea to have those movements drilled into your muscle memory, but you need to be able to vary them.

    Did you watch the fights this weekend? Barboza vs Dariush was a good example. Dariush had a nice jab into level change set up. A great move on its own, but because Barboza picked up on it he was able to counter with a flying knee. Anything is a bad idea if the opponent knows you're gonna do it. So try to incorporate more patterns and mix up the timing.
     
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  2. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    Some people still agree with Bas when he says you can just walk through a jab. MMA fans are just generally defensive of the skill level and even talent level of MMA fighters. It's always funny when there's a thread talking about how athletic MMA fighters are and tons of commenters try to act like it isn't mostly full of B level athletes.
     
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  3. rmongler Brown Belt

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    Just saying, i wouldn't really consider it 'not too long ago'. I mean what else before that but the formative age of MMA in the first place, where everyone had ideas about everything.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  4. Kickzilla Blue Belt

    Kickzilla
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    Bennie Briscoe



    hanzagod has some great highlights.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  5. aerius Purple Belt

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    There's a couple now, Dejdamrong was already mentioned and Sagetdao Petpayathai recently made his debut in One FC. And though she isn't Thai, Valentina Shevchenko who has more Muay Thai world championships than I can count on my hands is making a solid run in the UFC.

    For sure. I almost want to cry every time a fighter in MMA goes solely for the double collar tie and then either fails to get anything done or gets countered repeatedly. There's so many other grips to use in the clinch and fighters should be transitioning from one grip to another as needed to setup offence. Matt Brown will move his grips around to keep his opponents off balance and land elbows & knees along with trips, Demetrious Johnston does as well to land knees, and Shevchenko flows between grips & positions to land knees, elbows, and various takedowns.

    Agreed on kick defence as well, especially countering on blocked or caught kicks. Masvidal vs. Cerrone was one of the few times I've seen caught kicks countered in the Thai style. Masvidal caught the kick then dragged the leg across to get Cowboy off-balance and defenceless before clocking him with the counter punch. Almost everyone else in MMA will fire off the counter as soon as they block or catch a kick without pulling the opponent off balance first, thus the other guy is often able to absorb or block the punch without too much damage, or even dodge it entirely.

    Also interesting is that Shevchenko seems to be the only one who's figured out how to defend & counter the oblique kick to the knee that people are always complaining about. A few other fighters have had success in avoiding it by using constant lateral movement but no one else is checking the kick & countering or stepping around them with parries to counter.
     
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  6. a guy Black Belt

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    You can't leave out Jones when talking about the clinch in MMA. He's the best in the sport. He even beat Cormier there. Joanna fucks people up in the clinch too with her elbows.

    It's amazing how many guys don't even try to counter kicks, just take them. When the other guy is on one leg that should be the time to attack but a lot of guys just let their opponent kick for free.
     
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  7. aerius Purple Belt

    aerius
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    You just don't win against Jones in the clinch, Cormier had success early with the uppercuts but once Jones figured it out and adjusted his grips to control the arms and stop the punches it was all downhill for Cormier.

    It's almost like turn based fighting sometimes, one guy takes the kick and waits for his opponent to put his leg back down and reset before starting an attack of his own.

    Getting back to head movement, the OP brings up the importance of range & positioning, how it affect the types of strikes which are most likely to be thrown and the head movement which is used to defend against them and setup counters. This, along with putting everything together into a system and showing that head movement works in Muay Thai is demonstrated in this highlight video I found of Somrak Khamsing.



    When he's at kicking range, Somrak uses mostly pulls to avoid strikes so that he doesn't slip into a kick or duck into a knee. Once he's inside kicking range he'll use the full set of head movement along with his positioning to avoid strikes, counter, and make his opponents look really silly. He's always watching his opponents' stance and movements to anticipate which strikes they'll throw at him, and then using the right head movement to make them miss.
     
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  8. AtlSteel Blue Belt

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    Conor will learn all about head movement and jabs soon.
     
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  9. AcumenAthletics Orange Belt

    AcumenAthletics
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    Such a great Post! Wish this was an e-book!
    For anyone figuring out how to include this into their training, I got inspired by the 1st post and made a short training clip.

    This was a drill I did when I was a kid in karate. At that time, I thought it was dumb and now see the value of head movement while striking. For this head movement drill we use a piece of paper taped to a mirror. The focus is on moving your head off the center line while throwing the jab cross, i.e. seeing your reflection.

    You can move in different degrees, for instance just enough where you only see the reflection of 1 eye, half your face, or your entire face.




    How To
    -Place paper at head level.
    -Stand where the paper covers the reflection of your face.
    -Throw a jab cross without seeing your reflection.-
    -Repeat but this time with your head off center.
    -You should be able to see your face's reflection.
    -Once you get comfortable change up the rhythm.
    Work your slips, duck under as well as your bob and weave.

    I hope you find this video useful towards your Muay Thai training. Don't forget to leave a comment with any of your questions and share this video with your team mates.

    Best to your training,

    Danny Millet
     
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  10. Kickzilla Blue Belt

    Kickzilla
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    That is one of the most amazing uses of pulls, ducks,, and distance control I've seen lol.
     
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  11. n.diazismylife1999 Brown Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    Yes, there's so much more to proper head movement than just standing in front of a mirror and moving your head. Somrak knows when he can move his head and in which direction, which is why he doesn't get kicked in the head. Saying head movement will get you kicked is like saying jabbing will get you knocked out by an overhand right. It's assuming the jabber has no clue about what he's doing and won't take timing, positioning, distance, etc., etc into account. Fighting is all about reading your opponent, reacting and making them react.

    Which is why it makes no sense to freeze a frame where someone's head is to one side and say "yeah but what if he's doing that and someone kicks him in the head."
     
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  12. Hotora86 racist belt

    Hotora86
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    Just wondering which Karate style was that where you learned that drill? Coming from a Shotokan background, they always had us keeping our backs and heads straight. Evasion was always done by footwork and not head movement.
     
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  13. AcumenAthletics Orange Belt

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    Shotokan, my instructor as well as the senior students also competed in American Style Kickboxing. He wanted us to focus on pivoting our foot instead of bending at the wast for our head movement/slips.

    In orthodox stance vs orthodox stance:
    • Pivot left leg (like throwing a hook) and it will get your head slightly off center. Like you're slipping a jab.
    • Pivot right (Like throwing a cross) and it will get your head slightly off center. Like slipping a cross.
     
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  14. Hotora86 racist belt

    Hotora86
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    Wow, never seen that kinda approach and technique in Shotokan before, probably the AK influence. ;) But I like that. Karate should be open to new ideas, modifications, experiments even. It used to be a very inclusive and adaptive martial art up until the 20th century, now many people are just "stuck" in the dogma of "pure style".
     
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  15. Kickzilla Blue Belt

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    Random thoughts/questions on slipping technique:

    It seems to me like most elite coaches and pro boxers teach and use slips without the use of the hips. I think the exception being Mexican fighters and other South American, and Caribbean boxers. I think Canelo definitely uses his hips though I've noticed from those corner mics they put on between rounds his trainer calls it "breaking" the waist. Lomachenko is another one that comes to mind in the modern era, he also has very deliberate proactive slipping and tends to linger on his hips back and forth (likely a strategy for feints and traps but that's beside the point). Even at my own gym the coaches there teach slipping exactly this way EXCEPT for using the hips.

    Don't get me wrong I'm totally in agreement with the importance of the hips and being able to move one's centre. But what is with this key detail being essentially lost at this point with almost every boxing trainer?
     
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  16. a guy Black Belt

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    What I really like about that is you'd think he'd be open to uppercuts with all that ducking. However, when guys try to uppercut him sometimes he pulls, sometimes he shifts weight off to a side to sort of slip the uppercut, and sometimes he uses a cross-armed guard to block it. Nice example of varying the patterns and adapting to the range/position in order to neutralize what would otherwise be a dangerous counter to his movements.
     
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  17. a guy Black Belt

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    Thanks for the contribution Danny!

    Cool drill. Adds an interesting dimension to shadow boxing in front of a mirror, almost like an imaginary slip line.
     
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  18. a guy Black Belt

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    Is this supposed to be in reference to the whole Mayweather thing?
     
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  19. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    It's a good question. The hips are neglected in a lot of ways in modern boxing.
     
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