HBO documentary, A Dangerous Son

[VivaRevolution]

So I watched this documentary, and I had a few takeaways.

Critique of the role the left plays in this discussion:

4 boys are spotlighted in this film. 3 of them are raised by a single mom. The 1 that isn't, has obvious and severe issues. He rocks back and forth, his hands make claw shapes, and he waves them around involuntarily. This kid without a doubt had severe health issues, that went beyond just mental health.

For the other 3 boys, while I don't want to assume a lack of serious mental health issues, if there was a male in those homes, I don't think they would need to be put in residential full time mental health care. The lack of a male in those homes, was either a important contributing factor to the behaviour of those boys, or the important contributing factor.

No mention of this topic was made in the documentary.


Critique of the role the right plays in this discussion.

The congressman's son who killed himself because they couldn't find him a bed in a mental health facility for the night, was eye opening. If a congressmen can't get his kid a bed in a psychiatric hospital when his dad took him to the ER, on the same night his son later then stabbed his dad, and committed suicide, what chance does Jane or Jon Q Public have?

Ronald Reagan is a God damn villain for what he did to mental HC spending. We need government for mental HC. These shootings we see today, might just be the direct result of the massive cuts Reagan made to mental Health Care spending.

We already have health care rationing. When they refused that kid a bed, that was a death panel.

Discuss............

 

[Billy no mates]

Death panels only exist in socialist hell holes .

 

[ndwolfwood]

Incels are making documentaries now

 

[VivaRevolution]

Death panels only exist in socialist hell holes .

Like norway, and Germany right. Better yet though, instead of parroting partisan rhetoric, you should point to the Singapore private system that is heavily regulated, and we could have a real discussion about how a hybrid system of Singapore's private system, with public catastrophic care, using both private market driven solutions such as hot-spotting, and agreeing that all citizens have a right to life saving care without crippling debt, in the richest nation in the world, and then we would be having a conversation above kindergarten level. Right?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Wait, do you think that "the left" supports breaking up families?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Wait, do you think that "the left" supports breaking up families?

No.

 

[Jack V Savage]

No.

So can you elaborate on your question? All else being equal, single-parents homes are not as good as two-parent homes. I think almost everyone would agree with that, and it's not an ideological issue at all.

 

[Armbars]

All else being equal, single-parents homes are not as good as two-parent homes. I think almost everyone would agree with that.

Agreed.

 

[VivaRevolution]

So can you elaborate on your question? All else being equal, single-parents homes are not as good as two-parent homes. I think almost everyone would agree with that, and it's not an ideological issue at all.

Sure. I think the documentary makers knew their audience(hbo documentary, liberal audience)might not like the message that part of the problem with these boys, was simply lacking a adult male in the household.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Sure. I think the documentary makers knew their audience(hbo documentary, liberal audience)might not like the message that part of the problem with these boys, was simply lacking a adult male in the household.

Well, obviously *the* problem (as in the primary one) is not lacking an adult male in the household. And again, I think "liberal audiences" agree that it's better for the kids to have both parents in the home, unless there is a tradeoff that outweighs the benefit of that.

 

[chardog]

we have the highest HC spending per capita in the world practically, and you call that rationing?

 

[Trotsky]

For the other 3 boys, while I don't want to assume a lack of serious mental health issues, if there was a male in those homes, I don't think they would need to be put in residential full time mental health care. The lack of a male in those homes, was either a important contributing factor to the behaviour of those boys, or the important contributing factor.

I would like to (softly) push back on this.

In terms of diagnosed mental health conditions, especially anxiety and mood disorders, male parents/guardians may be less helpful and have a greater potential to exacerbate the condition, particularly in male children. This is by responding hostilely to it, such as you see here with the reductive wannabe be alpha male-types here. It isn't as stark as it used to be, what with the growing acceptance of mental health issues.

As JVS said, most everyone would agree two guardians are better than one, but in terms of dealing with a mental illness I would prioritize having a mother over having a father 10/10.

 

[VivaRevolution]

we have the highest HC spending per capita in the world practically, and you call that rationing?

We have the highest HC spending by far, and we get worse HC results then many socialist HC systems.

We do one thing really well in this country. We give the best acute care in the world.

We absolutely suck at every other part of health care. The waste, and lack of preventative care is staggering. The current system can't be reformed, because it is a world built on accounting fraud. You can't have accountability because a band-aid costs 300$.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I would like to (softly) push back on this.

In terms of diagnosed mental health conditions, especially anxiety and mood disorders, male parents/guardians may be less helpful and have a greater potential to exacerbate the condition, particularly in male children. This is by responding hostilely to it, such as you see here with the reductive wannabe be alpha male-types here. It isn't as stark as it used to be, what with the growing acceptance of mental health issues.

As JVS said, most everyone would agree two guardians are better than one, but in terms of dealing with a mental illness I would prioritize having a mother over having a father 10/10.

I don't disagree that it maybe in the child's mental health interest to avoid having to submit to authority, but I don't think that is really in anyone's mental health interests. It is none the less, the way of the world.

Alot of this discussion I think comes down to whether you agree that those 3 boys could live without being in full time psychiatric care. Because it seems clear to me that they are heading there, to jail, or a early death, and I couldn't help but wonder if that would be the case with a adult male in that house.

 

[Trotsky]

I don't disagree that it maybe in the child's mental health interest to avoid having to submit to authority, but I don't think that is really in anyone's mental health interests. It is none the less, the way of the world.

Alot of this discussion I think comes down to whether you agree that those 3 boys could live without being in full time psychiatric care. Because it seems clear to me that they are heading there, to jail, or a early death, and I couldn't help but wonder if that would be the case with a adult male in that house.

I haven't seen the doc, so I cannot comment. I was just butting in on the "father figure" issue that, while absolutely meritorious in many instances, can be somewhat spurious in the case of emotional disorders

 

[zebby23]

we have the highest HC spending per capita in the world practically, and you call that rationing?

These 2 things are not mutually exclusive

You can have high HC costs and still have what people may all rationing

 

[VivaRevolution]

I haven't seen the doc, so I cannot comment. I was just butting in on the "father figure" issue that, while absolutely meritorious in many instances, can be somewhat spurious in the case of emotional disorders

Worth the watch. I was conflicted all the way through. Part of me wanted to punch a kid in the throat, but the other part of me was being logical, and thinking that isn't normal behavoir, so if it is mental health, a rear naked choke is far more appropriate than a punch to the throat. I'm not joking about the choke. No different then what they do in the psychiatric hospitals, minus the strapping down, and injection of drugs. I was joking about the punch to the throat though, but I will threaten the shit out of a punk ass kid.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

I would hate to see this major problem devolve into partisan bickering. Its the surest way to ensure nothing gets done about it.

Yes, Reagan was a puppet and a buffoon, but the MHSA was only law for 3 years before he repealed it. While the law was certainly a step in the right direction, its repeal wasn't akin to opening up the gates of Arkham Insane Asylum. The bigger problem began in the 50s & 60s with a move toward deinstitutionalization.

We have a mental health crisis in this country. Put it over in the corner with the other crises we have no intention of dealing with.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Worth the watch. I was conflicted all the way through. Part of me wanted to punch a kid in the throat, but the other part of me was being logical, and thinking that isn't normal behavoir, so if it is mental health, a rear naked choke is far more appropriate than a punch to the throat. I'm not joking about the choke. No different then what they do in the psychiatric hospitals, minus the strapping down, and injection of drugs. I was joking about the punch to the throat though, but I will threaten the shit out of a punk ass kid.

I know what you mean; not the violent solution part, but the frustration. This reaction tends to be children specific because one tends to automatically assume 'brat' rather than mental illness. When you see this behavior in an adult, you always assume mental illness or drugs, and the reaction would be closer to fear than anger. I'll check out this doc, looks interesting.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I know what you mean; not the violent solution part, but the frustration. This reaction tends to be children specific because one tends to automatically assume 'brat' rather than mental illness. When you see this behavior in an adult, you always assume mental illness or drugs, and the reaction would be closer to fear than anger. I'll check out this doc, looks interesting.

I realized after reading that post that i didn't really clarify, that I mean choke a kid when they go into that crisis mode, instead of calling the cops.