Has the HW division evolved as a whole (last 10 years)?

[Typrune Goatley]

Borrachina would have been a heavyweight 10 years ago, that's why i used him as an example.

Arona was 200 pounds against Fedor, how that's a big LHW?
Yes both were green, but that was a grappling match and both had a grappling background and was a robbery like the first Nogueira Henderson fight if you ask me.


Imagine a 200 pounds guy like that Arona or a 190 pounds guy like that Dan Hendo fighting against a Miocic, Ngannou, Overeem, Werdum, Velasquez, Volkov, ...
That wouldn't even be fair.

Borrachinhna would probably be a LHW or a MW back then since he is able to cut to 185. If he fought at HW he probably would have been destroyed by any top 15 HW of just about any era. His style wouldn't really be effective at HW.

Arona vs Fedor was one of their first fights for each guy and that happened in 2000. I would say Heavyweight hit its peak between 2003 and 2009. Between 2009 and 2013 the stars from the old guard started slowing down while new stars like Cain, JDS, Brock, Werdum, Bigfoot, Reem picked it up for the next era.

By 2015 the division has become a wasteland. Cain has 3 fights in 5 years. JDS has been KTFO in 2 of his last 3 fights. Cain and JDS are past their best days. Bigfoot had brain surgery and had horomonal imbalances and can't take a punch anymore. Werdum is extremely technical but 40 years old. Reem and Arlovski can't take a punch. Hunt is 44 and still has no grappling. Oleinik is like 41. Stipe is young in mileage at 35 but he is getting tagged a lot lately and is benefitting from an aging division.

Volkov is one young guy with good standup but he will likely be submitted by old Werdum.

There are current boxing divisions that have seen better times just like HW MMA has seen better times.

Maybe one day it will be great again.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

His source isn't reliable, the same it's for you when you said Coleman was 250 pounds , Erickson was 320 pounds and stuff like that.

On average, the best heavyweights of the past were light heavyweights, and the big guys of the past weren't that good.

It depends what you mean with successful, Cormier was extremely successful.
But there is a reason those guys cut weight.

Erikson was 320 in his early run and 280 later in his career.

Coleman was absolutely 240 to 250 at one point. He got smaller as he got older.

All those other stats were correct. There has always been big HWs. Fedor and Randy were the exceptions just like Cain and DC in more recent times.

 

[Bubblun]

Arguing with you it's like arguing with a chair, no matter the evidence, it's a waste of time.

And dude, honestly, you are a professional Pride nut hugger, i don't know your job, whatever you do, but you are 24/24 on Sherdog commentating about old fighters and giving likes to everybody that talk shit about today fighters.

This forum is full of nerds that that trash today fighters, saying that the cards are shit, mma is dying and stuff like that, meanwhile mma in the past was a heaven.




How could people even give likes to a post like this one?

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, Crocop was one of the fastest and most mobile fighters the HW division has ever seen.

You see any HW's moving like this today?

After the OWGP Crocop had another knee surgery before arriving at UFC and this accumulation of injuries meant his movement, speed and power was never really the same again after close to 100 fights between amateur boxing, K1 and MMA.

With that kind of Mileage guys aren't gonna be the same Crocop had 27 fights just in MMA before his UFC debut.

Cain is at 16 fights, Stipe at 20 and Ngannou at 12, you think those guys are still gonna kicking ass in even 15 fights time?

Pretty sure we saw that Crocop in the UFC, Crocop signed with the UFC exactly 2 months after his OWGP run, fought in the UFC 5 months after, if he had knee surgery he was damn fast to recover (impossible).
Rose tinted glasses as usual.


This bullshit about the knee surgery before coming to the UFC is something i already read on this forum, obviously from Typrune Goatley, because we already know, when Pride fighters lose their are out of their prime.

 

[DayV]

Arguing with you it's like arguing with a chair, no matter the evidence, it's a waste of time.

And dude, honestly, you are a professional Pride nut hugger, i don't know your job, whatever you do, but you are 24/24 on Sherdog commentating about old fighters and giving likes to everybody that talk shit about today fighters.

This forum is full of nerds that that trash today fighters, saying that the cards are shit, mma is dying and stuff like that, meanwhile mma in the past was a heaven.




How could people even give likes to a post like this one?


Pretty sure we saw that Crocop in the UFC, Crocop signed with the UFC exactly 2 months after his OWGP run, fought in the UFC 5 months after, if he had knee surgery he was damn fast to recover (impossible).
Rose tinted glasses as usual.


This bullshit about the knee surgery before coming to the UFC is something i already read on this forum, obviously from Typrune Goatley, because we already know, when Pride fighters lose their are out of their prime.

The fact is that Cro Cop had none surgeries in his life till 2006., and he had 5-6 till 2009.

Also UFC is totally different rules and cage / large round octagon with wire fence is totally different environment from the ring.

Cro Cop's case is definitely not example of MMA evolution and of superiority of UFC fighters over Pride fighters, it is more than anything example of fighter beeing put in negative and bad rules & field for his style.

 

[Flokk]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there, Crocop was one of the fastest and most mobile fighters the HW division has ever seen.

You see any HW's moving like this today?

After the OWGP Crocop had another knee surgery before arriving at UFC and this accumulation of injuries meant his movement, speed and power was never really the same again after close to 100 fights between amateur boxing, K1 and MMA.

With that kind of Mileage guys aren't gonna be the same Crocop had 27 fights just in MMA before his UFC debut.

Cain is at 16 fights, Stipe at 20 and Ngannou at 12, you think those guys are still gonna kicking ass in even 15 fights time?

Cro-Cop also kickboxed for 5+ years before that and before THAT has 50+ amateur boxing fights. Plus whatever his cop training demanded.

Legendary brawl and sprawler. Underrated defensive ground game. Prime Cro Cop was a beast.

 

[Ilovepizza]

Today’s Ngannou would most likely be the best hw 10 years ago

Who was gonna stop him?

230 fatty fedor

Or 220 Mirko?

How about human punching bag big nog?

Just cause 6’4 240 stipe with well rounded mma game was able to neutralize ngannou m I suppose to believe men much smaller with lesser skill set would be able to do the same?

a better version of Ngannou better striking, improved his grappling a lot in the end ... but no one wanted to fight him ---> white ngannou 2.0
Ngannous boxing sucks ... he is just a puncher.