Has the HW division evolved as a whole (last 10 years)?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by george14, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. Hypetrainhipsta

    Hypetrainhipsta Orange Belt

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    You also have to remember that HW was one of the first, if not the first, divisions that had high level athletes cross over, thing about all the high level wrestlers like Coleman, Kerr or Randleman, the Russian Sambo guys and strikers like Cro Cop and then Hunt, over the years the talent pool hasn't really grown.
     
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  2. PEDS Help me Post

    PEDS Help me Post Black Belt

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    There's 7 of them in the HW top 15.

    Dolt.
     
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  3. Typrune Goatley

    Typrune Goatley Black Belt

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    DC, a LHW, is about to fight for the UFC Heavyweight title.

    And look at the post by Stevanchez just a few posts back ITT about size
     
  4. grimballer

    grimballer Silver Belt

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    Of course

    S/c is much better now. Fighters are also much more well versed N bigger

    10 years ago it was still style vs style
     
  5. Typrune Goatley

    Typrune Goatley Black Belt

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    Style vs style? That was the 90's. We are talking about the 2000s. (Actually 2008 in this thread)

    And they are not bigger today.

    And that S/C from the UFC Performance Institute really helped Ngannou didn't it? Was that evolved cardio and evolved grappling?

    How about 43 year old PRIDE vet Hunt outlasting 32 year #6 UFC HW Lewis? How was that S/C?

    How about Cain's legendary cardio and striking versus old Werdum?

    Evolved S/c?

    <36>
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  6. PEDS Help me Post

    PEDS Help me Post Black Belt

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    So which guys are showing this improved S/C ?

    Half of the top 10 can barely go one round without gassing and most of the fighters are 40 years old.
     
  7. Final Say

    Final Say You's'll Belt

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    The ability to make 205 is indicative of your size. You saying they rose up to a peak in 09 and now coming back down to 240 is an evolution itself. at first, small men could compete with skill and speed to their advantage. Then gigantic, strong men started to take over. Now the best heavyweights are 240ish and lean, that is to say, they don't have to ability to healthily make 205. Those are all evolutions. It doesn't hurt my argument that the current champ is arguable the most technically sharp across multiple skill sets, athletic, coordinated and quick heavyweight we've seen and an incredibly lean 240-245. He is an example of the evolution, himself. As was Cain, and every heavyweight prior.

    I disagree with your assessment of rumble and Maldonado btw, and Maldonado is actually a great example because he's even bigger than MW and still got crushed, plus he could've made MW but fought higher, just like Wanderlei
     
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  8. Metheus

    Metheus Purple Belt

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    Um...

    What are you talking about?

    -Arlovski is Old Breed...which is why I brought him up.
    -He's still relevant today... which is why I brought him up.
    -He's one of the guys who has been around for quite a while as a HW and is winning fights...which is why I brought him up.

    I'm not sure how that in ANY way translates into disparaging him. Quite frankly I was disparaging the REST of the HW division, which has NOT evolved in any meaningful way. That is what the thread is about...which is why I brought him up.
     
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  9. grimballer

    grimballer Silver Belt

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    So what you’re saying is guys like werdum n hunt didn’t improve from 10 years ago? They’re exactly same fighters they were 10 years ago?

    N they’re gassing cause they’re all much bigger

    What was ave hw size 10 years ago?

    Couture was top hw at 220, could you imagine a 220 hw today?
     
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  10. markg171

    markg171 Silver Belt

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    The point was that Arlovski is still relevant as he’s not relying on his skills from a decade ago. He’s improving himself, hence why he’s still here.

    A better example of your point would be a top 15 fighter who’s still ranked despite having not improved at all. Talking about fighters who bother to improve doesn’t prove that the division hasn’t evolved, it’s the opposite.
     
  11. grimballer

    grimballer Silver Belt

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    Today’s Ngannou would most likely be the best hw 10 years ago

    Who was gonna stop him?

    230 fatty fedor

    Or 220 Mirko?

    How about human punching bag big nog?

    Just cause 6’4 240 stipe with well rounded mma game was able to neutralize ngannou m I suppose to believe men much smaller with lesser skill set would be able to do the same?
     
  12. Dionysian

    Dionysian Silver Belt

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    Weird that you're arguing that a consistency is evidence of non-consistency. The OW champ of the world has been around 240 pounds in MMA and boxing almost constantly for much more than a decade. That seems to suggest consistency. There was never a peak of super HWs in 09 (that year Cain/Fedor/JDS/Werdum all existed) but rather a peak in marketing of super HWs. Obviously history has shown how much of that was marketing and how much was reality.

    Stipe being the 240 pound OW champ is the same as Klitschko, Cain, JDS, Fedor, and Nog being a 240 pound guy that was the #1 HW on Earth. We have case after case after case showing it to be the OW champ's weight, despite the marketing to size queens that ended up being flops over and over and over throughout the last 20 years.
     
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  13. Final Say

    Final Say You's'll Belt

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    What I was talking about in 09 was a peak in the average weight of heavyweights, which is something that other guy asserted and I just went with. I don't even know if it's true.
     
  14. wearetheromans

    wearetheromans Brown Belt

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    Idiot brain hurt
     
  15. Dionysian

    Dionysian Silver Belt

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    My bad then. Yeah though it is weird... we've heard about the incoming new breed evolution of the super HW for 20 years now and it's been flopping since Kerr failed to LNP Igor. Yet it happened for the 100th time with Stipe being an underdog to Francis who was marketed with such brilliant gems of fight analysis such as "it is like he is not even real, he worked in a mine" by Rogan.

    The funny part isn't how often it flops... the funny part is the 100th time they forgot the 99 flops before. Now that Francis gassed in the first and lost 50-45 we're out of it but I predict it doesn't last a year before the next bullshit talk of "evolution" past the 265 limit.
     
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  16. wearetheromans

    wearetheromans Brown Belt

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    Sapp was about 80 pounds bigger than ngannou and terrified people before he started taking dives
     
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  17. PEDS Help me Post

    PEDS Help me Post Black Belt

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    Which new skills is he relying on then exactly?
     
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  18. PEDS Help me Post

    PEDS Help me Post Black Belt

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    The average size of HW's was almost exactly the same 10 years ago.... as someone has already posted in this thread.
     
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  19. KingKali

    KingKali Green Belt

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    <Goldie11>virtually identical
     
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  20. Final Say

    Final Say You's'll Belt

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    D.C. is the only exception in a division where guys near his size were the rule. And I still suspect it's going to go very badly for him.
     

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