Has the HW division evolved as a whole (last 10 years)?

I think there is enough talent for this division.
But the UFC should instead investing money in WMMA invest it in the HW division and stop riding on the big names of the old ones.
 
definitely, yeah. werdum against cain was the best werdum we've ever seen. stipe is obviously one of the greatest and most skilled heavyweight athletes mma has ever seen. overeem's career has always been a roller coaster. cain's injuries forced him out but he symbolizes evolution. the lower level guys are coming in with higher credentials. blaydes, volkov and lewis wouldve been competitive at any point in heavywieght mma.


hes fighting a middleweight in this gif, though. imagine any of the current top heavyweights getting their hands on a middleweight today. stipe v maldonado is a decent example.

Wand was juiced to the gills and weighed 5lbs more than Crocop in that gif and in the previous round smashed 250lb national wrestling champ Fujita, but I take your point it's a different matter fighting Reem, Ngannou or Stipe.
 
out of physical prime shouldnt affect your skill set, cro cop fight exactly the same in ufc like he did in pride
No offense but how in God's name does physical prime not affect your skill set that might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. So reflexes don't decline? Strength? Speed ?Agility? Ability to train ? Wear and tear?
 
No offense but how in God's name does physical prime not affect your skill set that might be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. So reflexes don't decline? Strength? Speed ?Agility? Ability to train ? Wear and tear?

Yeah I didn't know what to make of that either.
 
You see any HW's moving like this today?

Using a gif of a very technical striker outmanuevering a wild brawler who's carrying 60lbs of unnecessary Japanese vitamin induced muscle in an attempt to fight at HW isn't really the most honest example.
 
It's a testament to how fucking difficult mma is, the same old relics are still top ten.
 
Considering the "New Breed" of HW already left and got new jobs while some of the "Old Breed" like AA are still fighting and winning, I dont think you can say its evolved.

I hate when people bring up Arlovski, when Arlovski is still relevant over a decade later as he's still a very good offensive striker with lots of power. More importantly though, he's a better striker than when he was champ, and a better striker than a lot of the division.

You shouldn't be going disparaging a guy who's still relevant for being better than he was back then. He's doing exactly what one would hope to do to still be relevant. He's not like certain other fighters who are refusing to try and improve, which is why they're losing.
 
the other factor though is that a bunch of those guys, if they were coming up today, would probably be lhw's. you just get trained to compete in your ideal weight class. so in comparing you really should look across the 2 weight classes.
 
Cro Cop was a 1 shot KO fighter with no footwork? Huh?

HW has not evolved at all, infact, it’s much worse now than it was years ago.

You’re stupid if you think that todays current crop of HW’s is more skilled than

Fedor
BigNog
Cro Cop
Randy
AA
Barnett
Sergei
Werdum
Aleksander
Herring
Coleman
Sylvia
Ricco
Rizzo
Randleman

^ that was HW’s about 15 years ago. You’re telling me today’s HW division is better than that?

Cain and Stipe, both amazing, JDS, amazing, Werdum is better now than he was years ago skill wise for sure (he was much quicker back in the day obv), props to Alistair for remaining relevant for this long, even Arlovski.

But, you have 2-4 AMAZING fighters and then a HUGE drop off with the rest.

In yesteryear, there was way more depth. And please don’t give me the bs about how MMA has evolved, because guys from yesteryear knew how to strike and grapple with the best of em.

If you want to see what the HW division was all about a decade+ ago, I suggest you go watch Big Nog vs Sergei Kharitonov from the 04 Pride HW GP.

Or Big Nog vs Barnett 1 (or 2) from 06.
That is an impressive list. Not disputing that. But for your consideration .... a lot depends upon perception. With 2 orgs going it is easier for more fighters to rack up winning records than it is in one. Kinda makes 'em all look more awesome. Logic would dictate (Spock here!) that some of those fighters would likely be at the lower tier of a single combined totem pole and perhaps looked upon as today's Struves, Nelsons, Kongos, Mitriones etc. But who can say for sure?
 
This is roughly what the top 10 in 2004 looked like.

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Antonio Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira
3. Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic
4. Tim Sylvia
5. Josh Barnett
6. Andrei Arlovski
7. Heath Herring
8. Mark Coleman
9. Pedro Rizzo
10. Ricco Rodriguez

I believe anyone of those fighters from 04 would be top 10 today. Maybe with the exception of Heath Herring.
100%. 25 year old versions of nearly all of those fighters would still be highly competitive today when you consider limited skilled fighters like Lewis are top 10 today.
 
the evolution of hw may not be as much as other smaller division but you could actually see the difference between the elite pride hw and today elite hw.cro cop is/was a prime example of evolution of mma when he fought in ufc,cro cop was always a one shot ko fighter with little to no footowork, it work for him back in pride but not in ufc or 10 years after.

Cro Cop is your example?

He's 43 and is like the 11th ranked HW

So yea, that's a shit example. Thanks for proving TS's point.
 
It's not much different than 2005 PRIDE. The top guys are well-rounded (Fedor, Nog, Cro Cop/ Stipe, Werdum, Reem). You then have a bunch of guys who got far on size, athleticism and power and aren't well rounded (Randleman, Coleman, Kerr, Goodridge, Fujita, etc./Black Beast, Ngannou, Hunt, Lesnar, etc).
 
That is an impressive list. Not disputing that. But for your consideration .... a lot depends upon perception. With 2 orgs going it is easier for more fighters to rack up winning records than it is in one. Kinda makes 'em all look more awesome. Logic would dictate (Spock here!) that some of those fighters would likely be at the lower tier of a single combined totem pole and perhaps looked upon as today's Struves, Nelsons, Kongos, Mitriones etc. But who can say for sure?

I can for sure say that somebody like Aleksander would have obliterated Struve, Travis Brown, Derrick Lewis and Roy Nelson lol
 
Last edited:
hi-res-c448d3cb02ce0ab15ea07315f4ef4c3d_crop_north.jpg


Free-Replay.png


image


https%3A%2F%2Fspecials-images.forbesimg.com%2Fimageserve%2F876103696%2F960x0.jpg%3Ffit%3Dscale


Alistair-Ovrereem-DROPPED-FINISHED-Junior-dos-Santos-R2-_zpsnd6g6jju.gif
 
skill wise not really

size, yes
Barnett was 6'3 and 250 pounds
Sergei was 6'4 and 242 pounds
Aleks was 6'5 and 260 pounds
Werdum was 6'4 and 245 pounds
ArlovskI was 6'4 and 245 pounds
Sylvia was 6'7 and 280 pounds
Ricco was 6'3 and 240 pounds
Mir was 6'3 and 240 pounds
Erikson was 6"3 and 280 to 320
Hunt was short but 300 pounds
Coleman was 6'1 and 250 pounds
Herring was 6'4 and 240 pounds
Kerr was 6'2 and 255 pounds
Schilt was 6'11 and 290 pounds
McGee was 6'10 and 270 pounds

And Nog was 6'4 and sometimes bulked up to 240. The only real successful small HWs were Fedor, Randy and Cro Cop.
 
In Cro Cop's case, his speed, reflexe, chin decline has been able to be kind of suppressed by experience.

Mirko in Rizin today is more skilled than the one in Pride, but he doesn't have the catlike reflexes and sprawl abilities he had.

Mirko kept evolving. If you watch his K1 WGP title run, you won't recognize his style. He fights safer, uses more clinch, relies more on his hands than on his kicks. Same in Rizin.

Contrary to Fedor, Big Nog, Wand, whose decline has been irreversible, Mirko managed to go back on tracks and adapt. He is on a 8 fights winning streak, and this includes Gonzaga, Ishii, King Mo.

For me it's an amazing performance, knowing how deep did Mirko fell in his darkest hours in UFC.

Mark Hunt did the same. The UFC wanted to cut him in his debut, he had a bad KO loss to Manhoef, and managed to have a decent UFC run.

Maybe it's a K1 thing, when you see how long Aerts has been able to fight at top level, those guys were machines, way above the likes of the 2010's era fighters who decline way faster with way less fights in their records.
 
Barnett was 6'3 and 250 pounds
Sergei was 6'4 and 242 pounds
Aleks was 6'5 and 260 pounds
Werdum was 6'4 and 245 pounds
ArlovskI was 6'4 and 245 pounds
Sylvia was 6'7 and 280 pounds
Ricco was 6'3 and 240 pounds
Mir was 6'3 and 240 pounds
Erikson was 6"3 and 280 to 320
Hunt was short but 300 pounds
Coleman was 6'1 and 250 pounds
Herring was 6'4 and 240 pounds
Kerr was 6'2 and 255 pounds
Schilt was 6'11 and 290 pounds
McGee was 6'10 and 270 pounds

And Nog was 6'4 and sometimes bulked up to 240. The only real successful small HWs were Fedor, Randy and Cro Cop.
Myths getting debunked one by one.
 
Cro Cop was a 1 shot KO fighter with no footwork? Huh?

HW has not evolved at all, infact, it’s much worse now than it was years ago.

You’re stupid if you think that todays current crop of HW’s is more skilled than

Fedor
BigNog
Cro Cop
Randy
AA
Barnett
Sergei
Werdum
Aleksander
Herring
Coleman
Sylvia
Ricco
Rizzo
Randleman

^ that was HW’s about 15 years ago. You’re telling me today’s HW division is better than that?

Cain and Stipe, both amazing, JDS, amazing, Werdum is better now than he was years ago skill wise for sure (he was much quicker back in the day obv), props to Alistair for remaining relevant for this long, even Arlovski.

But, you have 2-4 AMAZING fighters and then a HUGE drop off with the rest.

In yesteryear, there was way more depth. And please don’t give me the bs about how MMA has evolved, because guys from yesteryear knew how to strike and grapple with the best of em.

If you want to see what the HW division was all about a decade+ ago, I suggest you go watch Big Nog vs Sergei Kharitonov from the 04 Pride HW GP.

Or Big Nog vs Barnett 1 (or 2) from 06.
Clearly you didn't watch cro cop fight in pride or UFC,he got no footwork like almost all the he back then,and a one shot fighter.
Stipe>fedor
Current werdum >big nog and Barnett
Jds > cro cop
Ngannou > Sergei and Sylvia
Current Overeem >> aleksander,herring
Cain > Coleman and randy
Derrick Lewis>AA back then
Curtis > randleman
 
Barnett was 6'3 and 250 pounds
Sergei was 6'4 and 242 pounds
Aleks was 6'5 and 260 pounds
Werdum was 6'4 and 245 pounds
ArlovskI was 6'4 and 245 pounds
Sylvia was 6'7 and 280 pounds
Ricco was 6'3 and 240 pounds
Mir was 6'3 and 240 pounds
Erikson was 6"3 and 280 to 320
Hunt was short but 300 pounds
Coleman was 6'1 and 250 pounds
Herring was 6'4 and 240 pounds
Kerr was 6'2 and 255 pounds
Schilt was 6'11 and 290 pounds
McGee was 6'10 and 270 pounds

And Nog was 6'4 and sometimes bulked up to 240. The only real successful small HWs were Fedor, Randy and Cro Cop.
Those guys sound small, the women I prefer outweigh most of them. ;)
 
Back
Top