Has MMA turned in to shootboxing?

Ogata

Ogata

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Shootboxing is a hybrid style with emphasis on stand up and hip throws. Similar to San Shou but the root is in Japan.


From what I have noticed, we no longer have any slick grapplers like Karo Parisyan or even old school Diego Sanchez or Nick Diaz early style.

Diego and Nick became strikers while Karo is no longer fighting in the MMA and is participating in grappling tournaments.


The only person that was a star using a grappling style was Matt Hughes and yet he was never a star like Chuck Liddle or Conor.
 
Ogata said:
The only person that was a star using a grappling style was Matt Hughes and yet he was never a star like Chuck Liddle or Conor.
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GSP, Chael, Ronda, Brock Lesnar....

Come on man
 
Ogata said:
From what I have noticed, we no longer have any slick grapplers
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Workaholic said:
GSP, Chael, Ronda, Brock Lesnar....

Come on man
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Chael is famous because of his shit talking skills not his fighting style. GSP was an exciting karate/kickboxer and when he became famous, he became more of a wrestler. Ronda and Brock are a fair point but they also were shit talkers which adds to the fire but its a decent example.
 
Ogata said:
Shootboxing is a hybrid style with emphasis on stand up and hip throws. Similar to San Shou but the root is in Japan.


From what I have noticed, we no longer have any slick grapplers like Karo Parisyan or even old school Diego Sanchez or Nick Diaz early style.

Diego and Nick became strikers while Karo is no longer fighting in the MMA and is participating in grappling tournaments.


The only person that was a star using a grappling style was Matt Hughes and yet he was never a star like Chuck Liddle or Conor.
Click to expand...
Randy?
Tito?
Back then were stars and very much grapplers.

I think we'll see the approach change again within several years. I suspect the rules will adapt more with possible soccer kicks or stomps (at least, I hope so). If so, then then the merging regular "MMA style" will be forced to evolve more.
 
UFC started as who is the best grappler but the pendulum has swung to striking, for now.
 
The Bear said:
Randy?
Tito?
Back then were stars and very much grapplers.

I think we'll see the approach change again within several years. I suspect the rules will adapt more with possible soccer kicks or stomps (at least, I hope so). If so, then then the merging regular "MMA style" will be forced to evolve more.
Click to expand...


I am talking about modern MMA...
 
The current champs seem to be mostly well-rounded fighters that both strike and grapple well, with lots of examples of most champs doing both well. Conor is a bit of an exception who seems much more striking-focused. If Khabib captures a title he will also be an exception and is obviously much more grappling-focused.

Even guys elite in their grappling discipline currently (Cormier, Werdum etc) seem to be serious about cross-training these days and are more than competant at other stuff.
 
Ogata said:
Chael is famous because of his shit talking skills not his fighting style. GSP was an exciting karate/kickboxer and when he became famous, he became more of a wrestler. Ronda and Brock are a fair point but they also were shit talkers which adds to the fire but its a decent example.
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There has never in the history of combat sports been a fighter who got famous just because people liked to see them fight. You've always needed more than that. Conor is famous for his shit talking and fighting, Chuck was famous for his aesthetic and his fighting and so on.

Striking or grappling you need more than just your skills to make people give a shit. And those guys all did it while predominantly grappling
 
I think the problem lays on the other side of the fence. Guys today on avg. are much better at the whole ground game than ever before, both offense and especially defense of submissions. So taking a guy down now almost turns into nothing more than trying the ground n pound game and trying to secure a round on points. A lot of guys I think just feel like they can do more damage on the feet so they like to keep it standing. Plus fans love the standing game so think in return it will make them much more popular which in return makes them more money usually.

You do have your rare guys like Khabib who just man handles guys in the grappling game.
 
Workaholic said:
There has never in the history of combat sports been a fighter who got famous just because people liked to see them fight. You've always needed more than that. Conor is famous for his shit talking and fighting, Chuck was famous for his aesthetic and his fighting and so on.

Striking or grappling you need more than just your skills to make people give a shit. And those guys all did it while predominantly grappling
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I agree with you but it seems like in todays era, its much harder to sell or market grappling based fighters as super stars. Like I get people are more educated about grappling but the art arrived at a place with fighters knowing defensive grappling which seems to have a short learning curve and thus, the focus becomes about striking.

People mentioning Tito and Couture, well I also mentioned Karo as well as early Diego Sanchez/Nick Diaz as grappling stylist. But rather, I am speaking in regards to modern MMA era.
 
Ogata said:
... but the art arrived at a place with fighters knowing defensive grappling which seems to have a short learning curve and thus, the focus becomes about striking.
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that's a legitimate perspective. after almost 20 years since the first Unified Rules were implemented, it's quite possible that the combo that works best in this experiment of "no holds barred fighting with about 30 rules" is strong striking with just enough grappling defense to not get taken down or subbed, and/or hold on long enough to get stood back up.

but look at Pettis v Guida. didn't matter if Pettis was the best in the world for those several years after WEC - he got LnP'd and the belt went to Bendo while Pettis climbed back up the ladder.

obviously Khabib is the exception that proves the rule. Ortega is another. in the past, Sherk, Guida, etc.

the counter point is that these things ebb and flow. and they do. styles go in and out of favor.

all in all, i think you're kind of right, and that the sport has evolved a bit toward "whatever you do, don't lose rounds to LnP'd". not a lot, just a bit. if it works with this rule set, then it works with this rule set.

and lastly, yes, it's a great way to get noticed and paid more. a 10-2 guys with 8 KO's probably gets paid more than a 10-2 guy with 9 decision wins. should we blame UFC, the Unified Rules...or the fans?
 
SeattleFightFan said:
that's a legitimate perspective. after almost 20 years since the first Unified Rules were implemented, it's quite possible that the combo that works best in this experiment of "no holds barred fighting with about 30 rules" is strong striking with just enough grappling defense to not get taken down or subbed, and/or hold on long enough to get stood back up.

obviously Khabib is the exception that proves the rule. Ortega is another. in the past, Sherk, Guida, etc.

the counter point is that these things ebb and flow. and they do. styles go in and out of favor.

but look at Pettis v Guida. didn't matter if Pettis was the best in the world for those several years after WEC - he got LnP'd and the belt went to Bendo while Pettis climbed back up the ladder.

but yes, i think the sport has evolved a bit toward "whatever you do, don't lose rounds to LnP'd". not a lot, just a bit.
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Myself, I started off in boxing and judo. Down the line, my focus became more about boxing because there is less injuries while boxing in terms of joint pain, shoulder and knee problems. Then one day, while doing a drop in to one of the judo/jujitsu places, I realized attendance is down in grappling gyms while striking schools and even TMA schools are doing well with business and students attending classes.

Its a strange ebb and flow because it feels like we are in the 90s era. Then again perhaps its just my community, from all I know, grappling schools in the states might be full of students. But yeah, it just seems like every prominent fighter today is a striker with solid wrestling abilities.
 
Ogata said:
Shootboxing is a hybrid style with emphasis on stand up and hip throws. Similar to San Shou but the root is in Japan.


From what I have noticed, we no longer have any slick grapplers like Karo Parisyan or even old school Diego Sanchez or Nick Diaz early style.

Diego and Nick became strikers while Karo is no longer fighting in the MMA and is participating in grappling tournaments.


The only person that was a star using a grappling style was Matt Hughes and yet he was never a star like Chuck Liddle or Conor.
Click to expand...

Grappling is happening less because casual fans are having an effect on actual fighting.

The quick stand ups and the casual fans bitching and complaining about being bored which is just retarded but it's seeping into the way they referee and promote so you either have to be able to INSTANTLY sub an elite fighter or you have to be forced to stand up and kickbox.

Hopefully we can move back towards an actual fight one day soon and take a big massive wet shit on all of the spoiled cunts who don't understand fighting.
 
The Shootboxing S Cup used to be a pretty prestigious title in Japan. Anyone know if this is still the case? It featured many fighters who did well in MMA and k-1, but the cool thing was that it had its own stars who only competed in Shootboxing for some reason.
 
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