Has anyone ever admitted to being wrong, or changed their views in this forum?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by mixmastermo, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. mixmastermo

    mixmastermo Brown Belt

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    Looks like I was wrong. ( See what I did there?)
    I made this thread right after I noticed someones opinion challenged over and over in another thread and the person being challenged just got worse and worse with the disinformation.
    I suppose there just a handful of bad apples that never change their minds and they stand out.
     
  2. mixmastermo

    mixmastermo Brown Belt

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    This is so true. I challenged someone in a thread not too long ago because OP made a ridiculous baiting claim. After I made my arguments and left the thread, I came back a day later to find out OP had been edited. My post quoting the OP was still there so I had proof he changed it.

    Good times.
     
  3. Higus

    Higus Silver Belt

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    I don't know if I've dramatically changed stances on issues, but I feel like there are a lot of issues where I went from having a slight opinion one way or another to realizing that it was a much more complicated issue than I realized and that I didn't have a good sense what the best path forward is policy wise.
     
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  4. dontsnitch

    dontsnitch Steel Belt

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    Sup guys, thanks for the mention.

    Kafir, I thought it was funny to see you caught in the middle of a debate of whether or not I'm terrible. A centrist till the end... :)

    Bald1, I've been working on a project which limits my free time, but this forum has also become repetitive, and frankly, angry. Plus, if you don't log in all the time you can't keep up with the notifications which further limits your interest, but I pop in from time to time.

    Good to see I'm still triggering people after not having posted for a few months, I'm blushing a little bit. Addressing the general thread, I'd say the central issue here is not that of being unable to adopt different ideas or to concede points, though that happens, but it's the greater fallacy of being unable to acknowledge that some people may think differently than you and not necessarily be immoral- after all, why would you concede points to literal Hitler?

    Even with the man-children on my ignore list that dedicate their time to trolling, or those that I simply can't get along with because of personality differences (of which there are many)- I assume they're just looking at the world differently, not that they want to cause harm or are hate-filled- but this idea that "the other side" is filled with evil men who want the worst is a profoundly ignorant yet ubiquitous WR phenomenon which makes for honest debate impossible. If someone cannot even be charitable enough to grant you your humanity, there is no conversation to be had, and I think that's one of the main problem in this forum. Of course it should also be noted that there is an element of performance art that generally occurs on forums which further muddies the water, but again, this all works against honest debate.

    Cheers guys, I'll catch you later, apologies in advance if I don't respond the WR is not my first priority atm.
     
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  5. mixmastermo

    mixmastermo Brown Belt

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    In response to the bolded, I happen to have a very good friend who I disagree with regularly on some political issues. He is a great friend to have but honest sometimes he's just wrong and/or ignorant on some issues. I always try to give him the benefit of the doubt but he has a nasty habit of digging his heels in and doubling down on his arguments when he is proven wrong.

    So sometimes it isnt pleasant to talk to him, but just because I don't always agree with him doesn't mean I think he is a bad person.

    I try to give people the benefit of the doubt here, as much as possible. If I see things start to turn into an insult match I either leave or take the high road, bringing the discussion back on topic.
     
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  6. djacobox372

    djacobox372 Gold Belt

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    I have...

    Admitting your wrong is the same way as admitting you are no longer wrong. The only way to truly "win" an argument is if someone proves you wrong--you win the prize of not being wrong anymore.

    The person that is proven "right" is unchanged and wins nothing.
     
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  7. JonnyRingo84

    JonnyRingo84 Gold Belt

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    i think anyone who posts here long, has subtly.....refined, their positions on many topics. likely most of us will not admit to being wrong, but iron sharpens iron. its a painful process that we all resist, but most of us do not say or believe exactly the same things as we did when we first began posting.
     
  8. MiniCraque

    MiniCraque Black Belt

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    I'd like to point out two things: 1) people who change their minds (regardless of how extreme the shift was) not always voice it and 2) it doesn't always happen immediately in the span of single argument, but rather after prolonged exposure to fleshed out points from any given stance.

    So yeah, you almost never see posters arguing and one of them going "you know what, you're right. Fuck chocolate, I'm now a vanilla man."

    Online arguments rarely end with one side openly conceding or both sides backing off and agreeing to disagree. Most of the time what happens is that the rebutal chain is broken by silence from one of the parties. This can mean one of a few things:

    A) Silent poster doesn't check the forum for a few days, comes back and thinks the topic as died off. Reviving dead threads can sometimes be bad etiquette.

    B) Silent poster thinks the argument is counter productive and not worth it. Subject is maybe pointless or the opposing side is just trolling or spewing nonsense.

    C) Silent poster still disagrees somehow but isn't articulate enough to build a rebutal or doesn't possess the knowledge needed to build on his previous points, so he chooses to not respond anymore and just resent the opposing party from now on. This is how the @Jack V Savage fan club got rolling.

    D) Silent poster begins the process of re-evaluating his opinion on the subject and silently withdraws. There's nothing wrong with this, btw. Arguments aren't deadly struggles where one party has to end with "I yield!". If you're proven wrong, you don't owe the opposing party the gratification of openly conceding. For most arguments here that shit just doesn't matter.

    So just consider that D is almost always a possibility and even if it isn't (i.e. you're arguing with a known troll), the minds of the spectators are always up for grabs (otherwise arguments would take place in PM chains).
     
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  9. Bacco

    Bacco Black Belt

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    I have, but not big win with me as i've got no political side to stick with, so i may agree with a left position or a right one if it persuade me to be correct

    For how i see it only two type of peoples never break the hold on a wrong opinion: heavy politicized peoples and douchebags

    Well, maybe only one type after all
     
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  10. MiniCraque

    MiniCraque Black Belt

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    You're probably thinking of 2012. Paul didn't get much traction in 2008. He didn't get it in 2012 either tbh (cue @HOLA mocking him for "getting 3rd in a two man race" which always made me lul), but at least there was the perception that he did. His online support not only grew between 2008 and 2012 but also went from openly admitting a Ron Paul presidency was an unfathomable pipe dream to "it's (sort of) happening!!!one!"

    Funny story, I was also a sympathizer towards the Austrian school back in 2009 or so but I changed my position after being exposed to it's proponents, not the opposition. I joined a study group supposedly about law and economics (both subjects in which I was pursuing or would eventually pursue a degree on) that turned out to be a pseudo-libertarian echo chamber ran by spoiled, economically-illiterate Law students that focused almost exclusively on Milton Friedman while ocasionally bringing up Austrians and propping them up as the "old gods" or something. That and watching some of my classmates openly belittling the very field they were studying because of some pseudo-psychology mumbo jumbo they must have gotten from rehashed mises.org articles really turned me off.

    I should add that however that I dislike bundling Hayek with the rest of his ilk. Unlike others he actively engaged the "mainstream" (I use the term lightly because in the 1930s there wasn't a clear-cut definition of what that was) in a respecftul manner and his debates with Keynes ultimately served to evolve the playing field, even if he was eventually bested in the eyes of most. His importance as an economist is kind of overblown because his political beliefs resonate so powefully with the American right (and as a result his work as an economist is constantly ressurrected devoid of context), but that's hardly his fault. He never took his ball and went home like the Mises/Rothbard lineage did.

    This is getting out of topic though so I apologize for the tangent.
     
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  11. mixmastermo

    mixmastermo Brown Belt

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    No worries, this is good information.

    Thanks
     
  12. LogicalInsanity

    LogicalInsanity Gold Belt

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    Honestly, this is the point of conversation/argument...

    it's not about right vs. wrong, but rather progress and learning from one another...

    One should be objective and be eager to learn upon receiving new information.

    unfortunately, 95 percent of the people here have their minds made up and have no intention of ever changing their minds.
     
  13. Cid

    Cid Silver Belt

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    Yeah I once made a post about how Peter Hitchens was a dickhead for supporting the Iraq war....

    That was embarrassing. Especially when it was
    @Devout Pessimist that corrected me.

    There's probably a few more but that will always stand out.
     
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  14. Cuauhtemoc

    Cuauhtemoc Red Belt

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    Thanks, I'm traveling and my internet is horrid and I can't reply properly
    I not right wing in the american sense, although I believe I agree more with the right than the left. But for example, I support environmental protections while right wingers are usually happy to smash the environment to make shekels.
    I also support worker rights. I don't care about abortion or praying in schools.
    In the spirit of the thread that's something I developed with time, some years ago I was more libertarian in the regard.
    I don't want to teach the earth is 5000 years old or that invading foreign countries is good to deliver freedom(although, it seems, the left is keen to do so sometimes too)
    I do oppose migration and that makes me a fascist I guess.
     
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  15. Kafir-kun

    Kafir-kun Three Tailed Pasha

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    Your location gave me the sense you're more of an old school right wing guy.

    Ole Teddy Roosevelt would be considered a far right loon today based on his views on race and imperialism but even he could see the value in conservation and I remember @Devout Pessimist once had this interesting article in his sig which was basically an old conservative religious argument in favor of conservation so it wasn't always the case that the right in America supported raping the earth indefinitely.

    I remember you making the argument that was once understood by the right in America that welfare state polices and a social safety net aren't a slippery slope to communism but a rational concession to stave away more radically left solutions.
     
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  16. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    I'm actually changing my opinion and view from earlier where I said I had changed my view.
     
  17. PHATV

    PHATV WHITEBELT Platinum Member

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    I thought of you first, actually. Big Bernie Bro early on, weren't you? Then went Trump?
     
  18. RetiredSlave

    RetiredSlave Brown Belt

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    Not so sure of my mind just straight up being changed but Ive sure learned a whole lot from the dog.

    I got really wrapped up in politics during the last American presidential (Im Canadian so getting that invested is stupid in the first place) to the point where the anti Trump squad awakened latent or new right wing tendencies.

    Back to normal my political opinions are fairly weak and highly malleable. The only staple of my political belief system is that leaders should attempt to help not hinder the general population. Dont care what the name of the party or person that does that or claims will do it.
     
  19. Neph

    Neph Purple Belt

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    Lots of false modesty here. I'm never wrong, even if demonstrably so. It will be false news or you misinterpreted what I said, later with me quietly changing my opinions without acknowledgement.
     
  20. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    No.

    Neither.

    Never supported either of them.

    Just basked in the glory of Hillary's downfall. And I trade about Trump just to watch Dems lose their mind.
     
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