Has anyone actually used BJJ in a real/street fight ? | Page 2

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Evenflow80, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Lamfadha Purple Belt

    Lamfadha
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    So I just kicked out my mum's drunk boyfriend ( I know tough guy story) arm drag to trap his hands bodylock walk him to the gate, open gate with one hand push him out of gate, done.

    No damage to either party although he fell on the grass...... I would say but he threw strikes over the gate and caught me with one while I was explaining to the neighbours like an idiot.
     
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  2. Codger Brown Belt

    Codger
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    This is a major problem with the way bjj is taught these days. It's very sport oriented now and most gym owners don't generally like doing too much standing work because of limited mat space and injury. A lot of gyms don't really have the quality of mats that you find at judo places. My local judo clubs mats are twice a thick and the floor sprung just right. You can be thrown hard and it doesn't hurt. My BJJ club is a single thickness mat and it hurts too much for my liking, as a guy in his mid 40s.

    I've had a reasonable number of altercations over the years. All of them have been before I started BJJ but I did have judo. I can tell you it's been very useful. I can't claim to have used BJJ but I think I can extrapolate from the grappling I did use. You need to think about the sorts of fights you're likely to get into. BJJ is good for some, not for others. If you want to be able to handle all situations you'll need to do more than one art or MMA.
    Fights I had have included:

    Road rage - one on one: A guy overtook me so close his wing mirror hit my elbow as I was cycling. I shook a fist, he stopped, reversed and got out to fight me. Trip, pin a couple of punches and he's given up. Shook hands, he drove off. BJJ is perfect for this situation. Pride intact, no serious damage done.

    School-age fight with a dude 3 years older who'd left school and was in the army - one on one: Again grappling was ideal. He was shocked that his size, strength and age didn't count for much. Lots of threats, pushes and posturing. People generally let you bang. No marks or blood to explain.

    London pub fight courtesy of a gang who targeted my group for some reason. Surprise attack, broke my nose with headbutts. My friend broke a chair over him. All out war ensued. Mostly standing clinching stuff that probably stopped my getting a real pasting. I got away unharmed. Others were not so lucky. Not sure what I learned from that other than being more aware would have been good.

    Surprise sucker punch from behind: I woke up on the floor. No martial art was any use here.

    Fight between two groups in a restaurant: Used my judo but really wasn't such a great idea rolling around on the floor. I also got a chunk bitten out of my side. My mate who boxes handled his end much better with a single punch knockdown - no torn clothes and looked dignified about it!

    Big group fight of students vs local gang - a free-for-all, punches, headbutts etc. I stayed standing and fucked off when I go the chance. Definitely would not want to use BJJ here. This was really mostly about drunken aggression and thinking on your feet.

    So from my experience BJJ is good for one to one fights and any fight where you get taken down yourself and need to turn it around. Even against a half decent puncher, you should win. It's not always so good in more crowded scenarios and potentially very poor for multiple attackers, be that on your own or in a group vs group fight. BJJ is perfect for when YOU get taken down as reversals and attakcs from the bottom are its USP. I would say some basic judo is generally a more useful grappling style for the street as you spend a lot of time practicing getting the other guy down whilst you stay up which is crucial to some group situations. However judo is usually very sporty with zero thought given to street application so you need to augment the practice a bit.

    It's worth noting that in the real world, where not every "self defence" situation is a serious life or death mugging or whatever like you see in defence videos. Most of it is lower level stuff where you want to carry on with your night afterwards and so there is a lot to be said for not going all in with rolling about on the ground getting dirty but rather a trip, lay them down gently, knee on belly, a little chat and it's hand shakes all-around and off to the next bar.

    Striking is the go-to fighting style in most people's mind for good reason. Most people have just as bad striking as they do grappling so a trained fighter can dominate. You stay standing which is much safer in a group situation, you don't get all dirty and torn up which is nice on a night out and people will let you bang without white-knighting the other dude because you're about to put him out. The big problem with striking, in my opinion, is the potential for moral and legal problems. I knocked out a guy in a club - a real beauty of punch that had him off his feet and out before he hit the ground. I thought I'd killed him, which of course I could have done. And the cuts and bruises to his face and your knuckles are prima facia evidence against you. I'd think twice about hitting someone like that again. Killing someone over nothing would be very hard to live with.

    If you do BJJ with fights in mind then you must learn take downs and do some punch-aware practice. Personally I prefer trips over singles and doubles, and not just because my knees don't like them. With the wrestling stuff you tend to go down with them. With trips and simple throws you have the choice and in many real-world altercations, just getting them down is enough, no need to get all torn up. I agree with other posters that a standing arm drag is a great move. You're taking their punching hand out (90% the time anyway) and get a dominant position without going to the ground.

    Overall, if you're doing this with the above in mind then just do MMA. You don't need 90% of BJJ's subs, sub defence, guards, sweeps etc for real fights because your opponent won't know any of it. With MMA they focus on a small subset of practical grappling with an emphasis on standing back up. You also learn clinching, basic trips and take-downs and striking. it's hard to better all that. If you don't want to do MMA then augment your BJJ with some boxing/MT. If you won't strike then make sure you're doing some standup in your BJJ or take some judo alongside it.

    Or do what I've done and mature a bit, drink a bit less and realise that 95% of fights are avoidable and so training for them is probably a waste of time.
     
    #22
  3. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    That muy friend it's an excellent technique lol.. People are going to try to posture up as a natural reaction. Of you tying to breaking them down. That's why n1 you need to have posture control, other ways no matter in what scenario you are trying to triangle someone, you are not going to get it.
     
    #23
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  4. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Well, Then if you are interested in getting a feel of fighting and you are not getting any from you gym, change gyms. thats all I can say
     
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  5. Tebowned Boise Dime.

    Tebowned
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    About twice as a teenager. Wasn't really trained per se but had a little grappling experience.
    A local- gangster rapper in Idaho(haha) bullied a bunch of smaller teens like me at the time(5'6 150ish). He was 6'0 probably 220lbs. Maybe more but he was chunky not buff.

    He asked me if I banged and I replied "Only Girls" while laughing. He didn't find it funny. He squared up with me.
    I kind of backed away and said "You're way bigger than me."
    He replied "size don't matter."

    I punched first to try and catch him coming in and got hit with his right hand. Stumbled back and as he came in I shot for a double.
    I ended up ducking under and taking his back standing.
    I elevated him and put him down. Landed some good punches and choke him unconscious with a RNC.
    It was pretty euphoric as I was pretty sure I was gonna lose.



    I also had an amateur mma fight as a teen and won via RNC. Had a 5 second ko too.



    Edit:

    My grappling is way better now.
    This fight is almost 7 years old and that street fight is almost 8 years old.


    EDit again:
    My striking is also a lot better now.
     
    #25
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  6. Bayonet Blue Belt

    Bayonet
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    If you have grappling for self defense in mind, you're really looking to get good at gripfighting, throwing and top control. If you want that, start doing Judo or at least find a BJJ place that starts standing and drill takedowns regularly.
     
    #26
  7. BAKM Blue Belt

    BAKM
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    Completely agree.
     
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  8. Evenflow80 Blue Belt

    Evenflow80
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    Jesus man why are you getting in so many fights? I agree about a lot of what you said.

    Main reason bjj appeals to me is because I just don't want to punch. I'm not built for it. I'm regularly outsized by the average guy, and like you said it's a legal nightmare and you can easily knock someone down his head hurts concrete and he's dead and your in prison for life. No way.

    But at the same time most people don't have same problem hitting me. And that's what I'm worried of. I could he a bjj black belt and become a white belt the second a punch grazes me in a real fight because I never experienced that rolling at my gym.

    Plus like you said bjj is useless in a group fight or very crowded spaces like bars etc.

    I don't know.... mma including striking just isn't for me. And I do need to practice take downs literally every day if I stick with bjj including against much bigger guys.

    Really need to make a decision. Thank you for the very helpful response
     
    #28
  9. Codger Brown Belt

    Codger
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    Heh, well this was quite a while ago I'm 47 now and most this was in my 20s. I drank a lot and didn't shy away from rough places. Plus I had a never back-down attitude courtesy of being pushed around at school and deciding not to put up with it. I've also got a terrible temper so very quickly go from annoyed to red mist. I've not been in a fight for over a decade now.

    Being smaller doesn't neutralise striking. Those tiny flyweight boxers would put the average 200 pounder on his ass in a second flat. But I'm no striker myself. I find it deadly boring.

    If you can find a judo club just once a week would be a huge thing for you. It's fun too because the skills transfer in both directions and you will catch people out
     
    #29
  10. Was at Pride GP 2000 Brown Belt

    Was at Pride GP 2000
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    You really should check out gracie combatives. 20 years ago that's how we learned and from the 3rd or 4th month I was using it. My friends would say that shit doesn't work and I would say let's go. Close the distance, clinch, mount, arm bar. Every time. Problem you have today is in a real fight guys are not starting in your guard or trying to pass it for that matter. There is self defense that is really important to learn
     
    #30
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  11. Fla graplr White Belt

    Fla graplr
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    Drill on your own time before class. You wont get everything you personaly need in class
     
    #31
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  12. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    I've used it when I was bouncing. Mainly just using the deep arm-in-collar grip to break their postures (we were both standing -- it's a nice control). I double-legged someone against a wall and sat on them while other bouncers arrived. And I once lost my shit on an aggressive panhandler and pressed him against a wall and pressed my head against his jaw like we were in the cage. Still embarassed about that incident.
     
    #32
  13. Evenflow80 Blue Belt

    Evenflow80
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    Why are you embarrassed?
     
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  14. Evenflow80 Blue Belt

    Evenflow80
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    You mean they are trying to punch you rather than pass your guard etc?
     
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  15. Protectandserve Brown Belt

    Protectandserve
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    Used it plenty at work at the PD. Mostly takedowns, positional control and kimuras to gain control of suspects hands and get them into cuffs.

    We are allowed RNC's but haven't applied one in a while.
     
    #35
  16. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    Ah, for somewhat dorky reasons, tbh. Mainly because I was under stress and blew my top at the guy and I'm not happy about that at all, but then I wrote about it in the Mayberry and someone said I made it up and so I responded with, "You're right, I made it up." because any time someone in the War Room shit on me I would just agree with them, but then it just looked bad in the Mayberry and I realized some posters I actually really liked probably thought that I did just make it up like an asshole. I remember @M3t4tr0n being particularly disappointed, but I just stopped posting in the thread and let it die a quick death instead of trying to set the record straight because I was still pretty rattled.

    I'm worried that if I ever meet M3t4tr0n in real life I'll have to beat up a hobo to make him like me.
     
    #36
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  17. M3t4tr0n I am the walrus.

    M3t4tr0n
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    I don't remember that thread. Was I drunk at the time?
     
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  18. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    ...yes?
     
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  19. M3t4tr0n I am the walrus.

    M3t4tr0n
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    I probably was drunk.
    <mma4>
     
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  20. Was at Pride GP 2000 Brown Belt

    Was at Pride GP 2000
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    If you get into a fight most people dont even know what the guard is. In class I find rolling with a new person off the street provides a whole new element for me then rolling with a white belt 6 or 7 months in because the white belts are now conditioned to do jiu jitsu. Their timing is slower than mine and their list of options is not that big. Often I don't roll with people in between 1 month of training and blue belt. So yes. They might try to punch, grab your throat, balls what ever but it's not sparring in jiu jitsu class
     
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