Gym hoppers. Good or bad?

[PoundSand]

i don't know that you will or won't be telling our rivals how/what/when we train.

yet pro fighters bring all sorts of people into their camps, and, of course, other people can come into your gym and see you training. your sh*t ain't that secret so get over yourself.

Enough time to become a part of their competitive team, just a loose guideline. Team loyalty and respect= being a good person; treating instructors like cash gobbling BJJ dispensing machines = being a selfish dick.

its quite simply really, no grey is needed, grey only serves to help you rationalise things that are legitimate douchebag moves.

and there's the problem- some of us see our grey world in black and white. ;D

If you dont mesh with an instructor after a few months of training, move clubs, thats cool you are being respectful, if you leave after years of training and competing for the gym because "OMG an awesum BJJ blackbelt moved in down the road, and heez better than my instructor" then you are an epic prick.

what happens if a super awesome instructor DOES move down the road, after you've been training with a coach you like for 5+ years? even if he IS super way better, and for the sake of argument, let's say way cheaper, you should stay forever, otherwise you're a prick? :icon_lol: what if you NEVER really liked your instructor, but liked bjj and he was the only game in town, and you got promoted all the way up to purple or brown with him? do you still stick by him just because he was there first?

 

[PoundSand]

The pig picture isnt extreme, it only applies to those who leave instructors for no other reason than they want something better. Its like leaving a long term girlfriend because you think you have a better shot with a prettier girl, its a douchebag move.

good analogy. because, you know, most people stick with their first girlfriends forever. ha! it actually is a good analogy, but it's good as it disproves your point. :icon_lol: there are many, many reasons that relationships break up. many of them are even good reasons, including the realization that you're just not a good fit (even if you've been together for years). just because you love and respect someone doesn't mean you need to be with them forever. :icon_idea

 

[TheBJJProfessor]

I know a lot of thought goes into these things. Imagine not only hopping gyms as a member, but imagine leaving your association as an instructor. Here's an awesome podcast where Tim Sledd became the first american affiliate of Andre Galvao / Atos JJ. He left his association that had taken him all the way through brown.

SO MANY awesome insights in here: #232 BJJ Affiliation; How Do You Connect a School to an Instructor or Team? : The FightWorks Podcast | Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) Radio and News

 

[ganssle]

It really seems like some people are far too upset by someone else's decision. There's no need to get so angry about a choice that someone else is entitled to make. What is this the mafia? I know it's already been said, but really I think it's none of anyone's business if someone wants to train elsewhere.

 

[zegrapplez]

"yet pro fighters bring all sorts of people into their camps, and, of course, other people can come into your gym and see you training. your sh*t ain't that secret so get over yourself."

yeah, a pro fighter who pays dues and pays for coaching, and likely pays training partners. gym hopping is DIFFERENT than moving camps or switching teams. hence the title of the thread was "GYM HOPPING" not "SWITCHING TEAMS". it's not the same as showing up, training occasionally, and only when they feel like it.

it's like the guy you roll with who shows up when he's fresh, only rolls until he's tired, or gets the submission then he's ready to get water and grab a seat against the wall.
when you have 2 gyms, say, in a city, and they are rival gyms, competing for bragging rights, student membership, it is a big deal. if you don't understand the disdain for gym hopping, you're probably not a long time member of a team in competition with other teams, or if you are a member of a team, you don't really understand what the word means, and certainly don't feel what the word means.

read a book about the Gracies. Talk to a Brazilian. Talk to a Japanese Judoka. Words like loyalty, respect, and teamwork clearly make gym hopping what it is. someone who is selfish, cares only about when they want to train, and are not true team players. They care about their progress and their progress alone and considerably less about being around consistently enough to GROW and CONTRIBUTE to the Team.

 

[fourfif**]

and are not true team players. They care about their progress and their progress alone and considerably less about being around consistently enough to GROW and CONTRIBUTE to the Team.

last I heard grappling was an individual sport.

 

[GracieMMABarra]

who do you think you are, God? thou shall not lie?

You've used the girlfriend excuse huh? :wink:

 

[GS828]

Do whatever makes you happy.


The end.

 

[crankthat**]

Do whatever makes you happy.


The end.

Do whatever doesnt make you a renegade fucktard.

The end.

 

[Commissar]

last I heard grappling was an individual sport.

If you think that, you don't train.

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

Jiu Jitsu is a martial art. That being said, learning it is generally a service for most.

You PAY to learn. You PAY to be part of your team. If someone decides they want to learn elsewhere, that is their decision to make. However, it should be consulted with your instructor to see if cross training at other places is permissible. Regardless whether your instructor approves or not, ultimately in the end it is your decision to make for whats best for you and your training.

 

[fourfif**]

If you think that, you don't train.

the fuck are you talking about? you being serious? I'm sorry but that's a stupid ASSumption.

People on this board have trained with me and I currently train at el ninos. I'm no world beater but have enough titles, game, and experience undrer my belt to where I can speak on shit.

And I'm a big time GYM HOPPER. Yup. That's me. I have a great deal of respect for my former instructors, but this is what I was looking for. Not just bjj (AJJ now technically) and dedicated takedown instruction from champion fighters and sparring with very high level wrestlers. I was going takedowns with a d1 wrestler from purdue and former stanford coach three days ago!! Awesome sub grappling, and the TD work I just can't live without. This place is the **** TITS.

I've definitely found a home now, and have zero regrets. And I don't give two shits what some internet dork thinks of it.

I read the Gracie book saying that BJJ is individual sport

Which Gracie?? I bet he doesn't even train.

 

[lechien]

the more I read this thread, the more I realises it is just the newbies that are preaching the 0 creonte policy.

Hey, it is all in the financial interest of a school owner to enforce the loyalty towards his business. telling that it is a team therefore you need to train your team members. take it easy and don't spazz on each other because injured training partner do not pay their fees.

But at the end of the day, it is about the money.

I read the Gracie book saying that BJJ is individual sport but without a team you cannot train.

 

[PoundSand]

it's like the guy you roll with who shows up when he's fresh, only rolls until he's tired, or gets the submission then he's ready to get water and grab a seat against the wall.

Why would i care if someone does that?

read a book about the Gracies. Talk to a Brazilian. Talk to a Japanese Judoka. Words like loyalty, respect, and teamwork clearly make gym hopping what it is. someone who is selfish, cares only about when they want to train, and are not true team players. They care about their progress and their progress alone and considerably less about being around consistently enough to GROW and CONTRIBUTE to the Team.

I started out at a gym that was a gracie barra gym, and the owner is a semi-well known blackbelt, who received his blacbelt from carlos jr. He has a few other gb gyms around, and we heard all this team loyalty stuff from him. But his (local) gym isn't a gb anymore, as the dues are too high. He switched affiliations first, then went independent, then had a falling out with his partners and opened yet another one. He also had a couple brazilian blackbelts in to teach. They float in and out as convenient. You'll pardon me if i don't think the loyalties are much more than a way to keep you paying.

Don't ge me wrong - i REALLY like my current gym (owned by the ex partner of the above), and I'm friends with the owners and instructors, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to the reality that it's a BUSINESS first and foremost. It ain't no Mr. MIYAGI teaching me at his home...

 

[Nomad Nemesis**]

even kyra is team hopping

Graciemag International | ?Sure thing? for the absolute, Rafa trains with Kyra for ADCC

 

[lechien]

Which Gracie?? I bet he doesn't even train.

"BJJ is an individual and a social activity. Unlike a team sport, you face your opponent alone, both in training and competition. This forces one to become self-reliant. You cannot blame other for whatever failure you experience, nor can others take credit fro your successes. Thus the student grows in terms if individual responsinility. BJJ is a social activity insofar as you cannot succeed without a group of training partners upon whom you depend for your development. You have to learn to get along without them. ANyone who cannot fit into a group working towards a common goal and become a respected member will quickly find himself without training partners and unable to progress"

BJJ: Theory and Technqiques - Renzo Gracie and Royler Gracie

 

[ElKarlo]

I like being loyal, that i show I am as a person. BUT I think that there will become a point where you won't have much left to learn from your coach. It could be when you are a purple, or when you are a BB.

 

[crankthat**]

BJJ is a team sport, you all help each other progress and learn, the instructor puts time and effort into helping his students, raising the quality of his competitive team and also make his club grow.

Too many people are coming into gyms for a month or two, competing under certain gyms , and then fucking off due to any number of selfish reasons to train and compete at a rival gym. This is fucking bullshit, anyone who says its fine is a gym hopper and does not have loyalty to any one team. Gym hopping is not visiting other gyms for a friendly roll, gym hopping is training BJJ at other gyms whilst maintaining training in another gym they have already established loyalty to by competing and earning grades.

If a bigger and better rival comes along into your local scene, do you help your BJJ team by training and helping others and making your competitive scene strong? Or do you leave your instructor high and dry for no other reason than the fact that you 'really really want to train under this guy'? Yes its a free country, but fucking hell there are some douchebags inside it.

Id much rather have a team of decent people who were beasts on the mat, rather than people treating the instructor like a truffling pig 'as long as I keep paying I can do what I like" this attitude does not belong in our sport.

 

[kvltic]

BJJ is a team sport, you all help each other progress and learn, the instructor puts time and effort into helping his students, raising the quality of his competitive team and also make his club grow.

Too many people are coming into gyms for a month or two, competing under certain gyms , and then fucking off due to any number of selfish reasons to train and compete at a rival gym. This is fucking bullshit, anyone who says its fine is a gym hopper and does not have loyalty to any one team. Gym hopping is not visiting other gyms for a friendly roll, gym hopping is training BJJ at other gyms whilst maintaining training in another gym they have already established loyalty to by competing and earning grades.

If a bigger and better rival comes along into your local scene, do you help your BJJ team by training and helping others and making your competitive scene strong? Or do you leave your instructor high and dry for no other reason than the fact that you 'really really want to train under this guy'? Yes its a free country, but fucking hell there are some douchebags inside it.

Id much rather have a team of decent people who were beasts on the mat, rather than people treating the instructor like a truffling pig 'as long as I keep paying I can do what I like" this attitude does not belong in our sport.

I do agree with Crankthat.

To me it is ok to seek instructions from other instructors from other gyms/teams once in a while to learn something new/different from your own instructor. I believe there are world champions training with rival teams to improve their game but they do still compete under their own team am i not wrong?

I think this should be the correct mindset for everyone and not just keep gym hopping and changing teams due to own selfish reasons.

BJJ is an individual sport but it also takes people in your team to help you improve each others techniques and game. like what was mentions by the Gracies.

After all bjj is still a form of martial arts, we still have to respect our instructors and teammates. Not just change gyms/teams because you are the one paying the fees, gym hopping everywhere treating instructors like what crankthat had mention. These people do not deserve any respect because they dont even have loyalty to their own teams and instructors.

 

[Commissar]

the fuck are you talking about? you being serious? I'm sorry but that's a stupid ASSumption.

People on this board have trained with me and I currently train at el ninos. I'm no world beater but have enough titles, game, and experience undrer my belt to where I can speak on shit.

And I'm a big time GYM HOPPER. Yup. That's me. I have a great deal of respect for my former instructors, but this is what I was looking for. Not just bjj (AJJ now technically) and dedicated takedown instruction from champion fighters and sparring with very high level wrestlers. I was going takedowns with a d1 wrestler from purdue and former stanford coach three days ago!! Awesome sub grappling, and the TD work I just can't live without. This place is the **** TITS.

I've definitely found a home now, and have zero regrets. And I don't give two shits what some internet dork thinks of it.

Go wash the sand out of your lucid vagina.

I've trained with many of the top BJJ guys in the world, and all who I've asked would very clearly state that BJJ is as much a team sport as an individual one. I asked my current instructor today to provide his opinion, and he agreed that an individual's performance in a tournament or a competition is in fact, the team's performance.

Then instead of accusing you of not training, I'll backtrack and accuse you instead of having no fucking idea what you're talking about.