Guide to being a Cornerman | Page 5

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by SideofKO, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. mmafan0 Blue Belt

    mmafan0
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    What are your thoughts on cornermen being honest with their fighters?

    Pep talks and constructive feedback are one thing, but I don't think telling a fighter they are winning when they're obviously not is ever helpful. And I see it happen a lot.
     
    #81
  2. Hawkman3111 Yellow Belt

    Hawkman3111
    Joined:
    May 14, 2014
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am eagerly awaiting the handwrapping video.

    Some of you guys post some really excellent shyt in here, thank you so much.
     
    #82
  3. SFW84 White Belt

    SFW84
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    woodstock, ontario
    On Saturday the Amateur Fight Series held their first event in London Ontario.

    Bit of a background; i've been slowly been taught by my coach to learn how to do this for the mma gym I belong to (iron monkey mma in woodstock ontario). been mainly doing it by trial and error since he and i both agreed that they way that boxers get taped (how most stuff online is orientated), vs how mma fighters should be taped is pretty different. we came up with a way that we both think is logical and safe for the fighter to use.

    i practice it a few dozen times with elastic self adhesive bandages on myself to get a feel for what guys would be looking for. i tried a few different styles of padding widths and lengths and had a muay thai buddy suggest using toilet paper for the pad on the knuckle. i looked at him a little weird, however, it made sense. guaze ain't cheap. toilet paper is, and does the same job errrrrr........padding wise.

    what i have found so far:

    badboy corner products; the gauze and tape wasn't that great. their gauze frayed very easily, there was no stretch to the material, and on three occasions, i found random bits of other parts of gauze in the roll when i was unraveling the roll. i found myself ending up doing back to the gauze i purchased at walmart even though it was shorter in length. it wasn't as frayed and actually had stretch to it so it made it easier to get the wrap just a little bit tighter around the fighters hand. while it was nice to have tape that was a half inch to be able to tape down the knuckles between the fingers, but as for the inch wide tape itself when taping down the gauze? i found myself going back to hockey tape as it had much better adhesion to other pieces of tape. their endswell and scissors were great however. it was nice to have an endswell that is capable of having a curve for around the orbital bones of the face, but also a flat face in order to deal with the other aspects of the face. their scissors are bigger than anything i've seen (minus the leatherman raptor) that has a safety edge. so long as you kept it on the 45 degree angle, it would cut through the tape with relative ease.

    invest in vaseline in squeeze tubes. when doing multiple guys, you're then not chancing spreading anything between fighters (yes i know they should be good to go as we do blood checks as a requirement for mma fights in the ontario grapplers association). same with alcohol swabs. everything in a one times use so you can minimize everything being used multiple times when possible

    multiple bags of small ice packs. a few guys had some decent sized mouses around their face. so being able to hand off a bag of ice afterwards is rather nice since most guys are not thinking of bringing something like that after the fights (i handed out all the bags of ice i had before the night was done)

    i am thankful i paid attention to when they were discussing traumatic brain injuries and concussions from medical personnel while i was in the army. while i wouldn't say i am an emt or MD, it was good to know a few quick and easy ways to tell how badly someone it out of it (only had to deal with one fighter that was knocked out at the fights, but he was good to go in my eyes minus the broken nose but left specific instructions with his girlfriend and mother to check him every hour and a half to make sure of a few things)

    always to make sure to have more than what you think you'll need. i brought enough to tape 15 guys and used almost everything that i had in my box. i was glad i did so.

    get some business cards made up. even in this day and age of social media, it's still a way to show what you're qualifications are in case the guy has a brain cramp later on (i've received level b first aid and first responder certificate, as well as my tccc medical training while in the army. plus being a hick that refused to go to the hospital for anything that was less than five stitches, i've learnt a thing or two on taking care of myself)

    all and all, i enjoyed my time working in the back, and happy to see that the organization is willing to have me back to do that again in the future. my gym has another fight card coming up in march and will most likely be working in the back again getting guys ready. provided i am not fighting myself.
     
    #83
  4. SFW84 White Belt

    SFW84
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    woodstock, ontario
    i worked an event last friday.
    holy cow i could not believe how much i had to work. i started wrapping hands at 10pm and did not stop until 1 am. just kept coming and coming. i have to accept that the way i want to wrap is not the way i can wrap. i have to modify my wrapping technique in order to get everyone done in time for their fights (in the middle of the card there was three fights that didn't get past the first round so i got caught behind the curve). i've found a method that keeps fighters safe, but cut down on the time it takes to do a fighters hands.
    i recently also became qualified to ref amateur mma in the province, so my background is expanding. i enjoy working in the back so odds are i'll just be able to put gloves on the guys once i tape their hands and keep it at that essentially as seeing some other guys that got their hands taped by their coaches, just made me scratch my head.
    also; i need to invest in my OWN set of chairs. this last event i just sucked it up and deal with that i wasn't going to be able to get a chair, so i sat on my knees taping hands. by the end of the night, i was almost in tears not going to lie. coaches and fighters kept asking me how i was doing it sitting there in that position that long. luckily the army taught me how to be on my knees (any service member would truly get that joke). but yeah, never again. i'm buying my own folding chair to take to events and finding a way that if someone that isn't me touches it, they get shocked. that'll learn them.
    i have another card to work this coming weekend. excited for it as it's a qualified for the pan ams.
     
    #84
  5. SFW84 White Belt

    SFW84
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    woodstock, ontario
    had another event to work last night.
    i had chairs this time. it was magical beyond reasons. we had a round robin between three guys, had to keep checking on the one guy. thought he might of had a concussion but all his tests and eye checks i ran him through, he was fine. probably just not use to a quick adrenaline dump is what i wrote it down to.
    had two guys get it just right for getting punched so they'll end up with some black eyes once the swelling goes down. been there, know how it feels. their coaches/fellow fighters kept asking me after if that swelling is normal. just smile and nod, showed them my scars around my eyes, and reassured them that since nothing was broke around the orbital, that they're okay. just pressure, ice and that's that.
    another guy, pretty damn sure he broke his thumb just by looking at it. luckily the hospital was just across the street from the venue, so hopefully he listen to me and actually went. i should have dragged him in there myself looking back at it.
    but all and all, a great smooth transition all night in the back. i think i taped a dozen fighters last night. no mass chaos or anything like that. dressing rooms were perfect (we were fighting out of a hall, but the hall was attached to a hockey rink, so we got to use two dressing rooms in there)
    i know i've got a way to tape fighters now that's quicker and still safe. i'll have to get myself timed to see how long it's taking me to do a hand in this format. i think it's about eight minutes a hand.
     
    #85
  6. DoctorTaco Breadhead

    DoctorTaco
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    9,450
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Location:
    PDX
    Cornered a main event ammy fight last weekend. (My guy lost a fair decision, 29-28).

    I'm not sure if this tidbit has been posted, so I'll add my 2 cents: eat WELL right before you night starts. Fighters meeting at 5:00pm? Eat well and healthy at 4:45. Between the adrenaline, the long hours, and the inevitable post fight libations, it's easy to throw your system out of whack because your basically skipping a meal and dealing with all this stress. I screwed up and ate a few hours before the fight meeting thinking we'd be done earlier and then was running on caffeine and fumes all night. Not fun
     
    #86
    Centaur likes this.
  7. SFW84 White Belt

    SFW84
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    woodstock, ontario
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKR41ah9GNs

    the link above, is how stitch duran wraps hands. his way is honestly the best way i've found to wrap hands. i do a few different variations based on how much time i have to wrap a fighter, and how many i have to do in a night.
    putting the gauze on, i've found this is the most effective way. less to screw around with while getting a fighter ready.
    i have tried a few different companies for gauze and honestly so far, i've found rival as the best type of gauze to use. yes it is two and a half inches wide but i believe the benefit of having a little wider of a pad to place on the knuckles, is worth the extra hassle to wrapping around the thumbs.
    i've also noticed that guys with smaller hands, and women (that i've wrapped so far), really don't need 15 yards of gauze. like some guys, ten is really all you need in some cases. i've yet to come across hands the size of a polar bear, but i know i've got two heavyweights on the next card i am working, so we'll see what they want (so far any guys that size i've wrapped, only wanted the wrist and thumb done. come across this a few times. whatever makes the fighter comfortable)
     
    #87
  8. PhilB White Belt

    PhilB
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Agreed that this way is fantastic, and it's what I do to our fighters when practising for weeks before fights (here it is embedded):

    [YT]bKR41ah9GNs[/YT]

    However, I am running into a major problem... The unified rules specify that you can only use 10 feet of tape per hand. Now, if you look at the tape Stitch is using, that is a 10 *yard* roll. Pretty much every commission I've seen ignores this...except the British Columbia commission.

    They enforce this rigorously. They actually supply you with a single, 20' roll of tape, and that is all you get, period. That includes for in between the fingers. I have written an email to the commission, and, so far, their only response is that "everyone has adopted this rule", ignoring all the evidence I have given them that pretty much everyone ignores this rule (including some video like the above of Stitch taping hands, clearly using way more than 10 feet of tape). One of the commission employees actually told me that Stitch gave them a demonstration on how to do this with just 10' of tape per hand.

    Does anyone here do a proper tape job with that little tape?

    Linked is my email to the BC Commission:

    Note to the BC Athletic Commission
     
    #88
  9. SFW84 White Belt

    SFW84
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    woodstock, ontario
    i'm going to guess this is cutmanzilla above me ;)

    no problems with that stuff ammy wise in the province. but mind you my coach is the amateur mma rep for the oga in ontario, and he knows the real ins and outs and basically just lets me wrap however i feel comfortable, so long as i fall within the ontario athletic commission rules.
    i would send the the OAC, and whatever quebec falls under (it's like gambling and something or another category i think?) rules, and send that to the BC commission. they just need to be educated.
     
    #89
  10. kpoz12 The No Life King

    kpoz12
    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    1,763
    Likes Received:
    396
    Location:
    Kimura, BC
    [YT]p6DBDAbOOvs[/YT]
     
    #90
  11. Centaur Black Belt

    Centaur
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,598
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    On the Excalibur.
    Is this fairly recent then? I have wrapped hands for guys at Battlefield two times (4 people total), one time being in Vancouver, the other time on the Island (different commisiosns) and once at the NAFC. I never had anyone check how much I was using, just making sure I used only guaze and tape.

    The guys on the Island even let us tape across the knuckles on the front.
     
    #91
  12. PhilB White Belt

    PhilB
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    BC, Canada

    This is not CutmanZilla, but I do know him, and he has sent a similar note after mine and gotten a similar answer. The link to my note reveals who I am ;-)

    I will look into the OAC rules. Many of us have tried educating them, including many people who work for them. I found out a bit more about it, actually, just lately. We were at Battlefield 36, and I ran into the employee I had inadvertently lied to. Apparently, there were meetings after my email. And they went something like this:

    Them: "Is this really what happened?"
    Him: "Yes. He showed me the job, it looked inadequate, he showed me his roll of tape, which was way bigger (as we know now, it was 10 yards!), I let him tape properly, and it then looked like a proper tape job."
    Them: "Good. Make sure that never happens again."

    Sigh.

    This one employee has worked at UFCs. He agrees with me that they do it exactly like I (and CutmanZilla) do it. Every doctor he has talked to would agree. Every other employee I have seen agrees. The commissioner won't budge, for reasons unbeknownst to me, since they would help protect the fighters at no cost to their opponent.

    I'm just...stumped and very frustrated at this point.

    Needless to say, we got the "mandated" 20 feet for both hands again. Actually, not true. They magnanimously gave us an extra 2 feet to make up for the fact that we cut strips to go between the knuckles. How kind.

    Phil
     
    #92
  13. PhilB White Belt

    PhilB
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    BC, Canada

    This started last year. They didn't seem to care before. They are now allowing taping across the knuckle, but that's rather moot, since we still don't get adequate amounts of tape, and I'd rather use it to stabilize all the small bones in the hand, given the choice.

    Phil
     
    #93
  14. PhilB White Belt

    PhilB
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    37
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Yeah...Like most, they have adopted the NJ Unified MMA rules. No one can tell me why that 10 foot rule is there, and it doesn't appear that anyone actually enforces it...Except the BC Athletic Commission. Who added this ridiculous rule, and WHY? I would love to find out.

    Phil
     
    #94
  15. SFW84 White Belt

    SFW84
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    woodstock, ontario
    people are just uneducated and need to learn. just keep doing it over and over and eventually they're going to get the message.
    personally i don't mind the gauze braiding between the knuckles, it just takes far too long to do when you're taping 20 guys in a night. if you're only doing a couple, yeah totally. i think it is strong and broader between the knuckles so you can give better protection than the tape ever will between the knuckles.
    i was just at a seminar for wbc - canada that was ran by the ontario boxing association on the weekend. it was steve molitors old cutman that was showing us everything. learned a little thing to adjust my wrapping around the thumb which i will be doing from now on. so i'll be hopefully starting to work oba shows over the next few months.
    i had a card to work on friday as well. a few hiccups with guys accidentally missing parts of blood work. i didn't have much to have to deal with. no blood this time around. had one guy get thrown through the cage door. hit it at just the right speed and angle. it was rather wild. convinced the medics to let him keep fighting, and he actually won his fight. was so stoked for him.
    i've got my gyms card to work this weekend. we've got just over ten fights lined up. hopefully we end up with ten.
    on the plus side; i've finally gotten a connection for adrenaline. hey i don't really need it for amateur mma (as there's medics to deal with that as per the oga guidelines). but since i'm hopefully going to start working the amateur boxing, they actually use corner man, so i should be ready to rock.
    trying to scam my way into helping work the titan fc card coming up in montreal. *shrug* we'll see. we'll see.
     
    #95
  16. amishriot Blue Belt

    amishriot
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    89
    Location:
    New Zealand
    No matter what happens always tell your fighter that the other guy looks tired.
     
    #96
  17. SFW84 White Belt

    SFW84
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    woodstock, ontario
    hey phil if you wanted to be a major prick, the nj mma rules state that fighters must be cleanly shaven or a moustache lol
    yeah i had my gyms card. i forgot that update
    it was weird. head ref for the province said he'd show up.................and then didn't with no notification. i swear he's got a vendetta against us. we had a guy that's certified as a ref other than me, so he went out and did the show.
    i've apparently picked up an apprentice per say. she came up to me 'i've seen you sweat in the back of three shows alone now and this sucks, teach me'. so she sat there, watching me all night working. i had her do the things that helped me out (like making the strips for between the knuckles, grabbing my swell and coagulant for a cut). end of the night i made her wrap me. pretty decent for a first time i had to say. it's the little things she needs to work on before she's ready to rock.
    put yeah fairly dry night, one small cut that didn't require stitches. just threw some adrenaline on a swab and compressed with the swell. trained with him thursday, cut looks pretty much healed now.
    main event, the guy was caught in an arm bar and tried to twist and pull out..............................which resulted in a multiple fracture of the ulna in three places. helped the medics out getting his kit off (had to cut the glove with how it was broken in every single place, was just easier to work with). his wife was there, so once he was loaded up in the bus, i got in my car and she followed me to the hospital to show her where to go. went back to grab my kit, headed back to the hospital and hung out with them until i knew he was good to go.
    gotta say, his xray was really impressive
     
    #97
  18. Foppa21 Brown Belt

    Foppa21
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2002
    Messages:
    4,350
    Likes Received:
    55
    Honest, but positive (where possible). If they're losing, I tell them they're losing but try to punctuate with something positive that was having a good effect.

    If they have to finish, I tell them they have to finish. Again, got to guide them on what is working and how we feel they can get that finish. For a stand up guy it might me "Look you gotta push for a ko. If you knock him down, unless you think he's rocked and you can get around the guard and hammerfist don't follow him to the ground. Let him back up. You'll only get stuck in his guard and he'll hug and stall you out to the end"
     
    #98
  19. TheNightmanCometh Banned

    TheNightmanCometh
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    88
    Everything you said seems spot on except one glaring flaw. Putting ice on a fighter's neck is absolutely pointless. There are three spots on the human body that are good for thermal conductivity. The neck isn't one of them, and I am reluctant to reveal this training method because I use it with a lot of fighters at my gym, but I believe in free knowledge. Feet, hands, and the top of the head. The feet and hands should be submerged in ice water during the break, and the head should be covered with ice, but not regular ice.

    You want an ice pack with salt and ice in it. No one, and I mean NO ONE has ever used these methods that I've witnessed in combat sports. Go test this at your gym, take the core temperature of your athletes and let them cool down normally. Afterwards have them go through another training session and get their core temperature up. Now have them submerge their feet and hands in ice water WITH SALT for 5 minutes. Their core temperature will drop immediately. The same concept as warming up your feet and hands by a fire. You can thank me later, I just made a few trainers out in the world seem like Gods. You're welcome.
     
    #99
  20. Centaur Black Belt

    Centaur
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,598
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    On the Excalibur.
    This isn't that new - the army was testing a similar way of doing this 10 years ago.

    If you watch Erik Paulson corner guys he avoids the neck in favour of the chest and head as well iirc.
     
    #100

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"